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-   -   Ice and water shield (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/ice-water-shield-79986/)

SamReynolds 08-29-2010 10:30 PM

Ice and water shield
 
OK, here it is. Three very reputable, manufacturer backed contractors with three ideas as to how to install ice and water shield on a roof. I am getting 50 yr OC shingles, no known probs on current roof. Nothing but tar paper protecting it now. They are going to remove everything and start with the decking.

Contractor 1: Remove all gutters, and run ice shield down behind where gutters lag into the fascia, then re-install new gutters (for an extra $1200) because you can't take down seamless gutters without bending them. Gutters are only 4 years old and in great shape. (total $9700 with new gutters)

Contractor 2: Gutters are OK, so we'll fabricate a flashing that tucks down behind gutter, notched out for where gutters lag into fascia, and bends and goes up a few inches on the roofing deck. Then run ice shield along bottom edge of roof and over flashing, stopping just short of the gutters. (total $8500)

Contractor 3: Simply back gutters out slightly (and carefully) and tuck ice shield behind gutters and down a few inches. (total $7700 after $400 off coupon special)

All using OC 50 yr shingles, OC ice and water shield, OC roll ridge vent, and OC ridge and starter shingles. All contractors have been around 25+ years, and offer a 15-20 yr guarantee)

Stuck between a rock and a shingle

Tom Struble 08-29-2010 10:56 PM

if you can put up seamless gutters without bending them why cant you take them down?that being said i would recomend the i&w behind the gutter and new gutters with a gutter protector,done right its practicaly bullet proof

Slyfox 08-30-2010 06:53 AM

I vote for Contractor #3.

The only time I'll remove gutters is when there is a problem with facia rot or gutter leaks.

I never notch my eave flashing around gutter fasteners.

Lulimet 08-30-2010 08:33 AM

No need to install new gutters if the ones you have now are only 4 years old. K-style gutters are very easy to remove and put back. What contractor #1 is saying is nonsense.

I'd go with contractor #3

Michael Thomas 08-30-2010 09:55 AM

1) I occasionally see problems with rotting fascia an/or water intrusion when eave flashings are notched at gutter hangers.

2) I would be very helpful if you would post your location so we know in what climate the shingles/gutters will be installed.

3) In my climate (Chicago) at some eave designs, something like this is sometimes needed:

http://www.swistun.com/images/lp1.jpg

Details at: http://www.swistun.com/leakprotection.asp

OldNBroken 08-30-2010 10:33 AM

Gonna have to go with #3. If your gutters are still in good shape, no reason for the extra labor and material which is what it seems like he is thinking too.

federer 08-30-2010 12:08 PM

i should ask for i&W shield for my new roof to be tucked behind gutters too.....

seeyou 08-30-2010 03:01 PM

Contestant #1 just bought a new gutter machine.

Contestant #2 just bought a new dually 4 door.

Contestant #3 just got the job.

MJW 08-31-2010 09:25 AM

I'd choose number 2.

I&W behind the gutter does nothing but create problems. I&W in the gutter also creates problems. With a metal soffit and fascia, how do you replace them without ruining the I&W seal they created?

We do drip edge or gutter flashing into gutter and I&W on top. This is what the inspectors require and we must provide pictures. Never had a problem doing it this way.

I would still say Contractor #3 got the job 85% of the time just because he had the cheapest price. I'd throw him out just for having a "coupon". This is not retail.......... It's Contracting.

I'd choose someone else entirely to be honest because OC isn't up to par with other brands available.

OldNBroken 08-31-2010 10:26 AM

Oh I didn't notice the coupon special. God I think those things are so idiotic in construction. The majority of people out there must not see them for what they are because a lot of contractors still use em.
I would not have chosen OC either but that was not the topic of the thread. He just wanted opinions on the three competing bids and, IMO, the first two are adding and doing unnecessary work. #3 appears to be trying to do a proper job without those add ons. They all appear to be addressing the same issue, he is just doing it for less. Apples to apples he wins. That's the way it's supposed to work isn't it?

Don't know where he's from so don't know what is standard in his area.

MJW 08-31-2010 11:41 AM

Contractor #3 is doing something that possibly cannot be seen after the job is completed. Being he is the lowest bid.....chances are, it won't get done. JMO
Contractor #2 is at least giving him something in material and labor for his extra cost, and it will be seen.

If we could get a location or even a simple response, it would clear up some things.

MJW 08-31-2010 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeyou (Post 493278)
Contestant #1 just bought a new gutter machine.

Contestant #2 just bought a new dually 4 door.

Contestant #3 just got the job.


haha funny

I see #1 as upselling for a higher profit and bigger commission.
#2 is helping the world go round (economy):yes:
#3 is selling on price :no:

Be interesting to see if any of the "reputable" companies actually have legal labor. That would be my #1 concern hiring anyone.

Like I said, I bet #3 gets the job unless the others are contacted to go over what they are actually going to do (what the homeowner wants) and for what price.

seeyou 08-31-2010 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJW (Post 493755)
haha funny

I see #1 as upselling for a higher profit and bigger commission.
#2 is helping the world go round (economy):yes:
#3 is selling on price :no:

Be interesting to see if any of the "reputable" companies actually have legal labor. That would be my #1 concern hiring anyone.

Like I said, I bet #3 gets the job unless the others are contacted to go over what they are actually going to do (what the homeowner wants) and for what price.

The coupon deal makes me feel a little queasy about #3 on re-read.

SamReynolds 08-31-2010 03:03 PM

Went with #2. He agreed to not only match #3's price, but to put the I&W behind the gutters and put a flashing over top of that, much like the picture posted in this thread. It's in central NY State region, so a Northeast climate would describe it best for those of you who asked. Thanks for all your help, I'll let you know how it turns out.


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