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hansemx1 10-21-2006 10:45 AM

Ice and Water Shield
Recently, I had GAF 30 yr Timberline shingles put on my 80 year old house by a GAF certified Master Elite contractor and purchased the Golden Pledge Warranty. The way I understood this roofing system was that Ice and Water shield would be laid down on the eves and 3 ft around all penetrations. I have three sewer vents and two Broan bath vents. I also had them cut two skylights holes and install two Velux vented skylights. Because my attic space in currently being renovated, all the roof deck is visable from inside the house and because of the 1x plank roof construction and the age of it, there are many holes, gaps etc that allows me to see what they did. All but two of the penetrations fall within 6 ft of the roof edge so I can cleary see that water and ice shield was installed around these holes and I can see they installed it properly along the eves. But two of the holes are much higher and all around them there is no evidence of water and ice shield - only felt - and around one, only shingle. My question is, is there ever a reason to install water and ice shield over the felt or shingle. I thought that the shield was only to be adheared directly to the roof deck. The contractor said they used the "over the shingle" method and I think he's full of it. I think that at least directly above the penetrations I should only see that dark black, sticky material through the roof deck cracks and not just felt. And he said he would take it apart and show me it's there by taking pictures. Another question is if he takes it all apart and ends up having to put ice and water shield around these holes can he reuse the shingles or do new ones need to be used?

RooferJim 10-21-2006 12:09 PM

It is not uncommon for them to put a strip of I&W around the edge of the pipe flange. it sounds like your being difficult. if you have a warranty and it looks good and is not having probllems find somthing better to do with your time than to agrivate your roofer.
best regards
GAF Master Elite #00058

AaronB 10-21-2006 02:44 PM

I also use the over method so that if the IWS does its job of keeping out water that has somehow made it past the shingles, then you would want it to drain out on TOP of the lower shign.les, not underneath the felt and shingles. If you went straight to the deck, then any water that got as far as the IWS would drain into your bathroom, or furnace room or whatever. The Smart Pledge Warranty does not require Weatherwatch on every penetration. At gutters, valleys, and a few other misc items, but any extra is well...extra protection.

hansemx1 10-21-2006 07:57 PM

Thanks for advice
So now I understand what the over the shingle method is. In our contract it states that all penetrations will have a 3ft of strip of I&W all around the hole. What I'm confused about is this: in the 3 ft above the penetration, is the I&W shield adheared directly to the deck or over the felt?

AaronB 10-22-2006 07:35 AM

I do it on top of a securly fastened layer of felt. There really is no point going to the deck on those, since it is usually not necessary if properly roofed (but people like to hear Ice and Water Shield around every makes them feel good. As if IWS is a cure all for bad roofing practice). If you stick it to your deck, then you will stand a good chance of having to re-deck on the next tear off. I see no need to go to the deck around pipes.

hansemx1 10-22-2006 09:12 AM

Thanks Again
Thanks AaronB,

That is exactly what I was hoping to get from posting this question. I read the postings on this website frequently and was hoping you would reply. Now I understand and I'll leave my roofer alone. Which I am happy to do.
RooferJim, your reply was useless. Next time I post a question, I'll know I can just ignore your "answer" without having to read it. In case you didn't know, roofs are expensive and the customer has a right to question the work that's done before writing the check - Master Elite Contractor or not.

Best regards!

RooferJim 10-22-2006 09:38 AM

Please do ignore my posts then. on the same token a contractor has a right to screen out the moon bats before selecting to work for them. or at least after detecting this, figureing in an a-hole factor. perhaps your contractor did this.
Happy Roofing to All


Stormy873 10-28-2006 01:46 AM

Follow-up question re: Ice and Water Shield. I have a low slope 3/12 pitch roof and have different companies recommneding different things. Company # 1 suggests 2 layers of 15# felt. Company #2 recommends full coverage of entire roof deck with Ice and water shield.

Which would be the least problematic way to go? :eek:

Thanks for any advice... Am trying to make a decision that isn't going to come back to haunt me down the road a ways.



AaronB 10-28-2006 06:39 AM

NIether would be optimal, but if I had to choose between the two today, I would go with the ice shield.

Woodash 10-28-2006 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by Stormy873 (Post 22067)
Follow-up question re: Ice and Water Shield. I have a low slope 3/12 pitch roof and have different companies recommneding different things. Company # 1 suggests 2 layers of 15# felt. Company #2 recommends full coverage of entire roof deck with Ice and water shield.

Which would be the least problematic way to go? :eek:

Allow me:

You know now that you should probably kiss that 2x15# felt idea good-bye, together with the company that proposed it for that roof pitch. A full I&W shield is probably warranted here, at the very least, with some kind of roll cap. Some here would recommend more, like a rubber (e.g., EPDM) roof.

Whatever you decide, shingles ain't gonna cut it, and you'll need a full I&W shield as a base.

Good luck!

AaronB 10-29-2006 07:06 AM

If shingles dont cut it, no IWS needed. Viable low slope systems do not need IWS, they are sealed systems.

jmorgan 10-31-2006 07:13 AM

If your job is GAF...then you don't have any Grace Ice & Water Shield....probably GAF Stormguard. GIWS should not be installed over a layer of felt. This will defeat the adhesion to the deck feature of the material and allow the GIWS to move, possibly breraking the fastener shaft seal. There is no incompatability between felt and GIWS and it is quite acceptable for GIWS to lap over onto felt at penetrataions. Aaron, GIWS will not require re-decking like granular surfaced products. Just apply another layer of GIWS over the old layer when you re-roof.

MJW 10-31-2006 06:32 PM

None require redecking that I know of. Most codes allow what the shingle manufacturer wants. Most say to put strips in on top of drip edge if not done so or just add another layer. Some say to cover with felt and shingle. Others say to leave it alone. I have seen where people have tore off the sheathing and redone it, but they have insulation all over and it's just a waste of time and money.

The GAF IWS isn't the greatest. I don't use Grace. It looks to be a great product, but it is too sticky and expensive. I like the Certainteed IWS. No plastic to slip on like the GAF and it seems thicker.

MJW 10-31-2006 06:36 PM

Also, I have to agree with Jim. It seems you may not be able to be pleased. If it doesn't have any problems why create a problem.

If there are many holes and gaps, you probably should have stuck your money into resheathing than buying into a gimmick from GAF.

AaronB 10-31-2006 06:36 PM

I see no relevancy in a thicker membrane. GAF's ice barriers have never failed us. We use Weatherwatch.

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