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Old 06-22-2009, 09:58 AM   #31
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I need help from an honest to god roofer. Ed?


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Ed, in the last two pictures, why is there a gap between the fascia and the drip edge? If I had that on my house, I'd have a wasp infestation in 3 days.
That is not a gap.

There is a 1" x 2" Frieze Board nailed to the top of the main fascia board.

Usually, we tear those off, because they have been rain and sun damaged, but in this case it was solid.

The Drip Edge metal is tight to the 1" x 2".

Ed

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Old 07-06-2009, 12:33 PM   #32
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I have talked to three roofing companie so far (two of them pretty big) and nobody seems to use gutter apron. Is it that rare?
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:06 PM   #33
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Companies are so used to getting chiseled down on price and getting beat out over a few hundred bucks, that many resort to eliminating recommended, but not required materials and labor from the jobs they bid.

They may even subconsciously start to believe that those items are not an added value to the Roofing System, but that is just one of the reasons why most roofs only last between 12-15 years, due to many such short-cuts that are taken.

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Old 07-06-2009, 04:22 PM   #34
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I wish you lived in upstate NY! I will keep trying until someone doesn't look at me like I'm nuts.
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:51 PM   #35
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I need help from an honest to god roofer. Ed?


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Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Companies are so used to getting chiseled down on price and getting beat out over a few hundred bucks, that many resort to eliminating recommended, but not required materials and labor from the jobs they bid.

They may even subconsciously start to believe that those items are not an added value to the Roofing System, but that is just one of the reasons why most roofs only last between 12-15 years, due to many such short-cuts that are taken.

Ed
There is another reason Ed, in my area we don't get the same severe type of snow and ice build up that some of the more northern cities and states get, thus drip edge properly installed to lap over the facial covering and ice guard over that is sufficient in my area.
I think it's a shame that most roofers I know here in my area do not know the difference between drip edge and eave flashing, but that's because the majority of them do not have experience working in other states where such a product is an extremely important part of the roofing system.

I have worked in 19 different states and all over Ohio when traveling for Simon Roofing, thus I experienced many of the differences there are from one state to another.
When I installed roofs in Florida the locals looked at me like I was nuts when I started to lay starter strips up the rakes, they covered their drip edge in roof cement and than cut the shingles even with the outside edge of the drip.
When they told me I was going to use L flashing on the walls and chimneys instead of step flashing's I looked at them like they were nuts.

Different environments, require different steps/procedures to achieve a quality roof system.
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:51 PM   #36
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I need help from an honest to god roofer. Ed?


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Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Companies are so used to getting chiseled down on price and getting beat out over a few hundred bucks, that many resort to eliminating recommended, but not required materials and labor from the jobs they bid.

They may even subconsciously start to believe that those items are not an added value to the Roofing System, but that is just one of the reasons why most roofs only last between 12-15 years, due to many such short-cuts that are taken.

Ed

So true Ed, so true...............

We have lost jobs for $50, and then come to find out that the other roofer wasn't installing any new flashings, valleys, or vents. This happens so often, I can't believe that the public doesn't catch on.


Most like to blame the contractor, but sometimes it's the homeowner penny pinching that gets them in trouble.
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:57 PM   #37
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I wish you lived in upstate NY! I will keep trying until someone doesn't look at me like I'm nuts.
That's kinda odd, both times I worked in NY which was near 'Big Bear' I think it was called, they had some pretty heavy snows compared to what we normally get here in my area, thus eave flashing was used instead of drip edge, we still used drip edge on the rakes, just not the eaves.

Try asking about "eave flashing" rather than gutter apron, they may be confused because they know it by a different term like me.
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:01 PM   #38
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"eave flashing" up here is what some cities call I&W.

I have used drip edge and gutter flashing on eaves. On my own house I have Style D drip edge and the gutter fits on there just fine. I prefer to use steel over aluminum as much as possible. I&W on top of the drip or apron, of course. That is code here.
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:12 PM   #39
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"eave flashing" up here is what some cities call I&W.

I have used drip edge and gutter flashing on eaves. On my own house I have Style D drip edge and the gutter fits on there just fine. I prefer to use steel over aluminum as much as possible. I&W on top of the drip or apron, of course. That is code here.
That's exactly my point, to me ice & water shield is ice guard,
gutter apron is eave flashing, same materials called by different names.
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:16 PM   #40
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You guys should get together and form an association of some sort and hammer this stuff out.
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:18 PM   #41
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I agree with ya Sly. I got a nice chuckle reading the checklist I got from a City for inspections when they referred to I&W as "eave flashing".
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:31 AM   #42
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To MJW
Teminology is a big thing with customers. Words we take for granted, they don't understand. A little more time with customers goes a long way to not losing a job over $50. With some people it is a price point only.
We do the home shows here in Vancouver & bring in our most knowledgable staff to educate people about the products they are puchasing.
Terminology changes, installation changes, prices change & the customer is bewildered by all of it. Detail your quotes so they have to ask the other roofers the unknowns in their quotes that are in yours. Educating your cutomers goes a long way to making the sale at a price you can live with.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:39 AM   #43
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I need help from an honest to god roofer. Ed?


I knew I would get a lecture on "how to be a salesman" from a salesman. You are right, but sometimes, it doesn't matter what you entail in your bid. They only look at the dollar amount at the bottom.........that is, until they get screwed over a time or two. There are quite a few young people with houses here in the states. They have no idea, and really don't care.

Like Ed said, most contractors are used to getting beat down on their prices so bad because of cheap labor, that they have to make cuts here and there, and the customer gets what they pay for.

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