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Old 11-05-2011, 05:17 PM   #1
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Help with tricky valley


My roof is about 15 years old and is leaking like a sieve in the valley next to the dormer.
The roof to the left is roughly a 12" pitch. The one to the right is much steeper, probably a 14" pitch or more.
The valley is currently woven together with 3-tab shingles. Will replace with architectural shingles.

I'm wondering what the best approach would be in this situation with such steep pitches, and two different pitches.

I plan on ice and water shielding the bejeezus out of the entire thing.

Thanks!



edit: i'm leaning toward the closed cut or long island style.
i would start by shingling up the valley, then overlap the bigger roof onto the valley.
would this be good?


Last edited by wombosi; 11-05-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:47 PM   #2
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Help with tricky valley


It is some what of a tricky valley, eh.

My first thought would be to talk you into building a cricket/wash out, that would widen the distance from the right lower corner of the dormer to the valley, widen it by how much would depend on how you build the structure but it could easily create an 8" span with out it being overly noticeable from the ground.

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Old 11-05-2011, 09:30 PM   #3
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+1

Don't try to just remedy the problem with more sealant, ice/water, etc. There is no remedy for improper water flow other than re-routing it.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:06 PM   #4
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Help with tricky valley


well, it's a horrible spot for a dormer, but i don't see how this could leak with ice and water shield in the valley and lapped up the side of the dormer in a continuous piece.
the cricket is an interesting idea, but i'm not going to do it.
i wonder if there would be a nice way of extending the shed roof of the dormer to die onto the steep slope to the right.

thanks.
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:47 AM   #5
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What a big big of a dormer in a very nasty spot.,.,I agree with Sly,,,,,Major wash of rain,sloppy area for snow and ice,,,,hmmmm,,,,,Stake the architect,,,
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:53 AM   #6
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Boy, that design is a nasty piece of work... were there chimney flashing leaks as well (mismatched singles at the chimney base and ridge)?

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This is a case of aesthetics vs. function, especially as regards water running of the steeper pitched roof against the side of the dormer, but there is no reason why waterproof shingle underlayment (WSU) under a closed cut valley should not work, assuming that it's done properly so as to protect the dormer.

However, from a water intrusion standpoint my recommendation would be a open cut valley above a 12-18" siding hold back above a continuous valley flashing running 12"-18" up the side of the dormer and incorporating the apron flashing below the dormer's lower edge: easier to keep free of debris (which will be an ever greater problem once that valley is done with architectural shingles (you should not use a woven valley with architectural shingles) and will be easier to inspect and service. Copper would be attractive there, once the patina forms.
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:20 AM   #7
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Help with tricky valley


After further observation of the photo,,,,You might get away with a pan that runs 5' to 6' up the side that is vulnerable,,,
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:28 AM   #8
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Help with tricky valley


There are several routes to take, a few have already been mentioned and each will work assuming the valley is properly installed.

The difference between how you choose to go is longevity, meaning the water running off the right side and beating onto the side of the dormer is going to cause that area to deteriorate at a faster rate then the surrounding area.
A cricket installed to run a little more then half way up the right wall
(guest-o-mating) would create an 8/12, maybe 9/12 pitch cricket, thus increasing the longevity of that area to more like what would be expected of the shed roof slope.

Steeper slopes = faster water run off and less direct beating of the sun.
Lower slopes = slower water run off and more direct beating of the sun.

So a shingles on a steeper slope will have a longer expected life span than on a lower slope.

If you do like roofmaster suggested and create a wash out pan, meaning you would shingle both sides of the valley up to the bottom of the dormer install i&w shield, then a metal pan that covers the shingles you just installed and goes up the wall 12" too 18" and up the steeper slope 24" or more and up the valley several feet "the more the better" and then leave the pan exposed on the dormer side and shingle over it on the steeper side and up top were you decide to end it on the dormer side, you will speed up the water run off by eliminating the shingles and leaving a smooth metal surface there.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:40 AM   #9
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[QUOTE=Michael Thomas;764773]Boy, that design is a nasty piece of work... were there chimney flashing leaks as well (mismatched singles at the chimney base and ridge)?

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yes, the chimney was leaking badly. the roofer had bent up the copper counter flashing and installed aluminum step flashing. parts of the copper never got bend back down, and or blew off. plus the mason did a horrible job rebuilding the upper bit. so i repointed it, ripped off the shingles and aluminum, re-stepped in copper, re-countered in copper, and put back new shingles that don't quite match the faded black.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wombosi View Post
yes, the chimney was leaking badly. the roofer had bent up the copper counter flashing and installed aluminum step flashing. parts of the copper never got bend back down, and or blew off. plus the mason did a horrible job rebuilding the upper bit. so i repointed it, ripped off the shingles and aluminum, re-stepped in copper, re-countered in copper, and put back new shingles that don't quite match the faded black.
I wasn't going to to there, but that chimney cap is its own can of worms.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:55 AM   #11
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Help with tricky valley


Quote:
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I wasn't going to to there, but that chimney cap is its own can of worms.
why? i installed it. the lack of the cap was the reason the chimney was so deteriorated and leaking.

i'm only trying to buy a year or two with the chimney, then it's getting torn down when i do a direct vent boiler.

i need a strategy with this roof. maybe i should tarp it and wait a year, and change the dormer design, move it over maybe.
maybe i should wait on the roof until the chimney comes down.

then again, it's leaking NOW.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:01 AM   #12
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Help with tricky valley


What's venting through the chimney?
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:02 AM   #13
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What's venting through the chimney?
My oil fired boiler.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:04 AM   #14
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Help with tricky valley


Is there a liner of any sort in the chimney?
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:15 AM   #15
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Help with tricky valley


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
Is there a liner of any sort in the chimney?
the chimney from the roof up was redone before i bought the house. only that section has a ceramic flu. the rest of it is unlined, just brick. i've seen a few of the bump-outs on the first floor, and where the vent pipe goes in in the basement.
i realize the chimney is a piece of junk, but what does this have to do with the cap being a can of worms?

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