Please excuse the length but I am trying to solve a long standing puzzle that we have tried to have addressed for too long. Our house is scheduled to be reroofed next week and after that all evidence will be gone. I need help.
I live with my Mom in a 1 ½ story condo. My Dad passed away in 2001.Here is a brief history of the house:
1971 House built
1988 First reroofing . No info on that.
1989 – House purchased by my parents
1995 – I move in to help parents
1998 – Reroofing all shingles taken off.
The upstairs has a finished bedroom and bath at one end of the house. There is a large storage room at the other end. You can see rafters and insulation in the storage room and it is unheated or cooled.
There is a door that can close this room off from the rest of the upstairs. It is usually closed except for the spring and fall. When the door is open, the single window in the storage room lines up with the single window in the bedroom. A box fan sits in the window of the storage room. It runs all year long and creates a good current of air. There had been a roof exhaust fan but it had broken in the early 1990ties.
Before the 1998 roofing I could see daylight through the eves of the South side of the house.
The box fan in the window of the storage room drew a good current of air and in the summer it was possible to cool down the storage room to tolerable temperatures in the evening. My Mom and I did crafts at a long table in the center of the room in the spring and fall. The breeze that was pulled from the open window in the bedroom by the box fan in the storage room made it very pleasant.
Prior to the 1998 reroofing, there had been no problem with moisture. Although extremely hot in the storage room, the attic part was basically arid. We dried flowers up there.
Prior to the 1998 reroofing, the insulation in the storage room looked brand new. The paper was the color of a new cardboard box and there was no sagging or drooping. There were no stains or watermarks on the insulation paper. In fact it looked brand new.
There was a large piece of carpeting on the floor of the storage room that was a light gold. There was not a mark on the carpet and it, too, looked brand new. Several months after the 1998 roofing it began to get water/tar marks.
I live in the bedroom upstairs. I also have my computer and desk in the bedroom and do my work there. I am in and out of the storage room all the time. As a result I came to know both room very well.
Our problems began in 1998 after I had lived here four years. In that year the house was reroofed.
In the fall of that year and after the reroofing, I noticed water marks/stains on the carpet. I also saw watermarks on the sub flooring where the water had pooled and run slightly downhill.
The insulation paper began to get dark in the southwest corner of the room. Over the next 8-10 months this darkening of the paper would spread throughout the entire attic. The insulation began to droop and come off. The paper became so dark it was impossible to read the manufacturers name. (owens corning)
A black tar like substance dropped from the rafters and began to cover things on the back or North side of the house. Boxes that had been stored on the back or north facing side of the house were stained. These boxes had been stored in this spot since my parents had moved here. One of them was a box of Xmas decorations that I would get out yearly. It had no stains before the reroofing but did after this.
Eventually we had to cover everything on the backside of the house with plastic.
This dripping and staining seemed to slow down and then stop about three years after the reroofing.
In 2006 –2007 mold developed and was found everywhere. It was especially bad in the crawl spaces between the top of the finished ceiling above the hall and bedroom. It was black on the drywall, which made of the back of my closet.
Presently we are having all insulation hauled out, and entire new roof and sheathing put on.
I was especially anxious to see what the sheathing would look like after the insulation was off. The South or front of the house was fine but the North or back of the house was terrible.
When the house had been reroofed in 1998 I had seen, from the outside, a panel of sheathing that looked waterlogged. I asked that it be replaced. The roofers said they had also asked but the request had been denied.
The sheathing on the backside of the house was buckled and we had noticed from the outside view that the roof had been buckling and sagging. When I saw the sheathing from the inside without the insulation, it was obvious why this sagging had taken place. Almost every panel was disturbed and warped.
There were water stains and in some places dry rot. The water stains seemed to start at the rafters (?) or beams that go from the eves to the top of the roof. In some places they only spread out a little, but in other places they would go across the panel.
At the corner of the house (NW) it looked as if the ceiling from the eves to the top was detached from the walls. I could have easily slipped my hand in-between the two. The water stains and dry rot were especially bad here and covered the panel from the eves halfway up to the top of the roof. This is where I had seen the insulation start to get dark; it was also the same panel I had seen from the outside on the 1998 roofing and asked to have replaced and which, I was told, was denied. The stains did not look as if they were from condensation. They looked as if from water.
Two different companies had actually done the reroofing in 1998. One did the back another company did the front. The nails on the back of the house were amazing to look at. In some places they had used long nails that went through the whole roof and extended out several inches. The wood had split in some places where these long nails had been used. In places where short nails had been used the number of these nails was amazing. Many were bent, and there were some spots where a number of nails had been driven in the same spot. There were panels on the upper part of the roof that had very few nails.
The front side looked fine. Normal number of nails and all were the proper size. No water stains. Plywood looked new.
Over the years we have had numerous “experts” look at this problem. We have been told the following:
Insulation too thick.
Excessive heat in unfinished part.
Lack of functioning exhaust fan.
Condensation.
Wind driven rain under shingles
Extremely poor reroofing job.
I have been struck with one thought concerning most of the reasons above. It seemed as if most people saw the obvious and then latched on to that idea and would not let it go no matter what evidence was presented. There was no discussion.
Condensation was the most obvious reason of all. But after 30 years this would have covered the entire back side of the roof at the very least. Also condensation often forms circular type patterns and not one of these were remotely circular. The vast majority of the panels were not stained but did show random signs of water marks. I also had used local roofers. A few admitted they didn’t want to say anything but did want the job. The reason for their reluctance stems from the fact that our Association replaces the shingles of some units every year which is a good account for roofers.
To me there are several pieces of information that just can’t be dismissed and they are:
Prior to 1998 reroofing there were no signs of water. The house was 27 years old when this started and when we began trying to have it corrected. The speed with which the insulation darkened and spread made it obvious to me that had this had not been a long-standing problem or it would have happened long ago.
The black tarry substance started after the reroofing and stopped several years later. It could have come from the asphalt like substance used to attach the fiberglass to the paper, but supposedly the melting point of that is extremely high. It could have come from the roof. The point is that had it been a long standing problem this substances would have melted off a long time ago and there would have been nothing left to melt in 1998.
I need to find some kind of answer soon because the roofing will be torn off this week and all evidence will be gone and I will never have an answer.
I know this has been too long, but I have written this in the hopes that someone out there can look at the obvious fact that this problem did not exist until the reroofing and describe some way I can investigate some factor that would help determine when and how this all came about. I can’t help feeling that the fact I am a woman and old makes me seem stupid in the eyes of the “experts”. I would be grateful for any help or suggestions.
I live with my Mom in a 1 ½ story condo. My Dad passed away in 2001.Here is a brief history of the house:
1971 House built
1988 First reroofing . No info on that.
1989 – House purchased by my parents
1995 – I move in to help parents
1998 – Reroofing all shingles taken off.
The upstairs has a finished bedroom and bath at one end of the house. There is a large storage room at the other end. You can see rafters and insulation in the storage room and it is unheated or cooled.
There is a door that can close this room off from the rest of the upstairs. It is usually closed except for the spring and fall. When the door is open, the single window in the storage room lines up with the single window in the bedroom. A box fan sits in the window of the storage room. It runs all year long and creates a good current of air. There had been a roof exhaust fan but it had broken in the early 1990ties.
Before the 1998 roofing I could see daylight through the eves of the South side of the house.
The box fan in the window of the storage room drew a good current of air and in the summer it was possible to cool down the storage room to tolerable temperatures in the evening. My Mom and I did crafts at a long table in the center of the room in the spring and fall. The breeze that was pulled from the open window in the bedroom by the box fan in the storage room made it very pleasant.
Prior to the 1998 reroofing, there had been no problem with moisture. Although extremely hot in the storage room, the attic part was basically arid. We dried flowers up there.
Prior to the 1998 reroofing, the insulation in the storage room looked brand new. The paper was the color of a new cardboard box and there was no sagging or drooping. There were no stains or watermarks on the insulation paper. In fact it looked brand new.
There was a large piece of carpeting on the floor of the storage room that was a light gold. There was not a mark on the carpet and it, too, looked brand new. Several months after the 1998 roofing it began to get water/tar marks.
I live in the bedroom upstairs. I also have my computer and desk in the bedroom and do my work there. I am in and out of the storage room all the time. As a result I came to know both room very well.
Our problems began in 1998 after I had lived here four years. In that year the house was reroofed.
In the fall of that year and after the reroofing, I noticed water marks/stains on the carpet. I also saw watermarks on the sub flooring where the water had pooled and run slightly downhill.
The insulation paper began to get dark in the southwest corner of the room. Over the next 8-10 months this darkening of the paper would spread throughout the entire attic. The insulation began to droop and come off. The paper became so dark it was impossible to read the manufacturers name. (owens corning)
A black tar like substance dropped from the rafters and began to cover things on the back or North side of the house. Boxes that had been stored on the back or north facing side of the house were stained. These boxes had been stored in this spot since my parents had moved here. One of them was a box of Xmas decorations that I would get out yearly. It had no stains before the reroofing but did after this.
Eventually we had to cover everything on the backside of the house with plastic.
This dripping and staining seemed to slow down and then stop about three years after the reroofing.
In 2006 –2007 mold developed and was found everywhere. It was especially bad in the crawl spaces between the top of the finished ceiling above the hall and bedroom. It was black on the drywall, which made of the back of my closet.
Presently we are having all insulation hauled out, and entire new roof and sheathing put on.
I was especially anxious to see what the sheathing would look like after the insulation was off. The South or front of the house was fine but the North or back of the house was terrible.
When the house had been reroofed in 1998 I had seen, from the outside, a panel of sheathing that looked waterlogged. I asked that it be replaced. The roofers said they had also asked but the request had been denied.
The sheathing on the backside of the house was buckled and we had noticed from the outside view that the roof had been buckling and sagging. When I saw the sheathing from the inside without the insulation, it was obvious why this sagging had taken place. Almost every panel was disturbed and warped.
There were water stains and in some places dry rot. The water stains seemed to start at the rafters (?) or beams that go from the eves to the top of the roof. In some places they only spread out a little, but in other places they would go across the panel.
At the corner of the house (NW) it looked as if the ceiling from the eves to the top was detached from the walls. I could have easily slipped my hand in-between the two. The water stains and dry rot were especially bad here and covered the panel from the eves halfway up to the top of the roof. This is where I had seen the insulation start to get dark; it was also the same panel I had seen from the outside on the 1998 roofing and asked to have replaced and which, I was told, was denied. The stains did not look as if they were from condensation. They looked as if from water.
Two different companies had actually done the reroofing in 1998. One did the back another company did the front. The nails on the back of the house were amazing to look at. In some places they had used long nails that went through the whole roof and extended out several inches. The wood had split in some places where these long nails had been used. In places where short nails had been used the number of these nails was amazing. Many were bent, and there were some spots where a number of nails had been driven in the same spot. There were panels on the upper part of the roof that had very few nails.
The front side looked fine. Normal number of nails and all were the proper size. No water stains. Plywood looked new.
Over the years we have had numerous “experts” look at this problem. We have been told the following:
Insulation too thick.
Excessive heat in unfinished part.
Lack of functioning exhaust fan.
Condensation.
Wind driven rain under shingles
Extremely poor reroofing job.
I have been struck with one thought concerning most of the reasons above. It seemed as if most people saw the obvious and then latched on to that idea and would not let it go no matter what evidence was presented. There was no discussion.
Condensation was the most obvious reason of all. But after 30 years this would have covered the entire back side of the roof at the very least. Also condensation often forms circular type patterns and not one of these were remotely circular. The vast majority of the panels were not stained but did show random signs of water marks. I also had used local roofers. A few admitted they didn’t want to say anything but did want the job. The reason for their reluctance stems from the fact that our Association replaces the shingles of some units every year which is a good account for roofers.
To me there are several pieces of information that just can’t be dismissed and they are:
Prior to 1998 reroofing there were no signs of water. The house was 27 years old when this started and when we began trying to have it corrected. The speed with which the insulation darkened and spread made it obvious to me that had this had not been a long-standing problem or it would have happened long ago.
The black tarry substance started after the reroofing and stopped several years later. It could have come from the asphalt like substance used to attach the fiberglass to the paper, but supposedly the melting point of that is extremely high. It could have come from the roof. The point is that had it been a long standing problem this substances would have melted off a long time ago and there would have been nothing left to melt in 1998.
I need to find some kind of answer soon because the roofing will be torn off this week and all evidence will be gone and I will never have an answer.
I know this has been too long, but I have written this in the hopes that someone out there can look at the obvious fact that this problem did not exist until the reroofing and describe some way I can investigate some factor that would help determine when and how this all came about. I can’t help feeling that the fact I am a woman and old makes me seem stupid in the eyes of the “experts”. I would be grateful for any help or suggestions.