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Old 11-15-2012, 02:12 PM   #1
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


I bought a house and closed on October 4th. I just got a letter from Liberty Mutual saying that my policy is canceled as of December 14th due to "Condition of property" and "Porch roof observed with 6+ marks of unknown cause per 10x10 area." The inspectors for the insurance company are Reliable Reports Inc.

The agent tells me I need to have my roof replaced and that they assume that the main roof is in the same condition as the porch roof even though they couldnt get on it to inspect. I have until the 14th to comply or my policy is cancelled.

The roof was just installed 3 years ago according to disclosure from the previous homeowner and verification(color change) from aerial photography.

Can you look at these pictures and maybe help to describe to me why a 3 yr old roof would need replaced? The picture that is 4 in 1 is the group of photos they took. I have many more but my phone is terrible at uploading today so only 3 of my own high res pictures are available. I will post again when I can add the rest of the photos.
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/...sumr/ShenRoof/

Thanks for your help in advance!

-Dustin


Last edited by dman1983; 11-15-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:57 PM   #2
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


Looks like a lot of the little stones are gone but thats about it from the pics. If the roof is only 3 years old, the shingles may have a 15 or 20 year warranty depending on the brand. IT does not cover storm damage but you may have a defect that they might cover for materials.

I would also switch ins companies, they seem to be very annoying

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Old 11-15-2012, 03:05 PM   #3
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


The roof looks to be older than 3 years..........strange wear patterns on the roof look like someone was up there working on something and wiped out a section of roofing granules. I can't believe the ins. co. is doing this to you..........in a way it's their way of saying "we don't want to insure your house." I don't think it is close to leaking just yet. Anyway they would allow you to just replace the damaged area?
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:57 PM   #4
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


Drop them and pick another company
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #5
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


just as an heads up....there is a central 'repository' for insurance claims. So for example, the previous owners filed and insurance claim for hail damage on the roof. Well, any insurance company can see this.

I found out about it a bit too late. When we bought our house, the sellers said there were no known issues. A couple of years later while 'shopping' for insurance, I found out that the PO had actually filed a water damage claim a month before putting the house up on the market....due to a long sequence of events....I missed out on filing a claim....(don't ask me about termite inspections and related issues...don't want to talk about it)

So...I'm wondering if that roof has been repaired?

While your at it...go insurance shopping...once you have a policy...tell Liberty to refund all of your money....
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:03 PM   #6
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


Hard to tell from those small picture and all at an angle if it's missing granuals of just harmless black fungus.
Someone would have to be on site to really figure it out.
There's several shingle companys that have had issues with loose granuals. Any chance there a left over bundle in the garage or under the house so you could figure out what brand they were?
Some are offering replacement shingles. If you Google "shingle recalls" lots of info comes up.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:44 PM   #7
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


Quote:
Originally Posted by pwgsx View Post
Looks like a lot of the little stones are gone but thats about it from the pics. If the roof is only 3 years old, the shingles may have a 15 or 20 year warranty depending on the brand. IT does not cover storm damage but you may have a defect that they might cover for materials.

I would also switch ins companies, they seem to be very annoying
Hey friends! Thanks already for your help.

I'm VERY annoyed with the insurance company but they seemed like a reputable name and the next best quote from 7 other places is 50% higher.

I spent all day worrying about the discoloration and then noticed I didnt see it in the insurance company pics. Im wondering if it was some weird way the dew set in on the roof since these pics were taken at 6:30am. I dont remember ever noticing it before and it didnt appear to be there tonight, but of course it is dark. Yes I am the crazy first time homeowner standing on the roof in the dark. Anyhow, the flash works and I took some test pictures moving horizontally from the building out towards the road to see if I could see the discoloration that way, and I dont.

THe insurance company didnt mention any dicoloration in the form I received, only more than 6 marks in a 10x10 area.

Here are more pics. THe first 4 are known scuff areas which I presume are from ladders, or tools being dropped on the roof. It sure seems only these 6 or so shingles could be replaced and not the whole roof. After the first 4 that is when I went from closest to the building out toward the road taking a picture about every 2 feet. Then I did the same on the other side. Each side has about 6 pictures to span the roof.

What do you think about the condition of the granules? I know the dinged shingles should be replaced but hopefully I could get away with just doing that....

I also posted the rest of the photos I had from this morning in the link in the first post.

Granules:
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/...umr/shenroof2/
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:52 PM   #8
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
The roof looks to be older than 3 years..........strange wear patterns on the roof look like someone was up there working on something and wiped out a section of roofing granules. I can't believe the ins. co. is doing this to you..........in a way it's their way of saying "we don't want to insure your house." I don't think it is close to leaking just yet. Anyway they would allow you to just replace the damaged area?
I agree it looked like that this morning. I am going to look again tomorrow and see what I think. None of the up close pics I took tonight look like they are missing significant granules do they?(except of course ding spots). I am hoping they allow just to repair damaged spots.

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Drop them and pick another company
If they insist on being ridiculous Im afraid it will come to that.

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Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
just as an heads up....there is a central 'repository' for insurance claims. So for example, the previous owners filed and insurance claim for hail damage on the roof. Well, any insurance company can see this.

I found out about it a bit too late. When we bought our house, the sellers said there were no known issues. A couple of years later while 'shopping' for insurance, I found out that the PO had actually filed a water damage claim a month before putting the house up on the market....due to a long sequence of events....I missed out on filing a claim....(don't ask me about termite inspections and related issues...don't want to talk about it)

So...I'm wondering if that roof has been repaired?

While your at it...go insurance shopping...once you have a policy...tell Liberty to refund all of your money....
THanks for the repository information.. I have no idea to know if its been repaired but I know the whole things was replaced 100% in 2009. The whole house was gutted and rehabbed then. Aerials show roofing material going from brown to grey in 2009.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Hard to tell from those small picture and all at an angle if it's missing granuals of just harmless black fungus.
Someone would have to be on site to really figure it out.
There's several shingle companys that have had issues with loose granuals. Any chance there a left over bundle in the garage or under the house so you could figure out what brand they were?
Some are offering replacement shingles. If you Google "shingle recalls" lots of info comes up.
Great idea, if it ends up to be a shingle issue I do hope I can get materials out of them. UNfortunately, no trace of the manufacturer. I broke a tip off trying to see if I could lift one. I guess add that to the list of ones that needs replaced.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:53 PM   #9
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


Another question I have is, do they appear installed ok? I wondered about the horizontal what I would call "tar" marks showing on each one. Are they supposed to show like that?
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:35 AM   #10
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


"Porch roof observed with 6+ marks of unknown cause per 10x10 area."

So your insurance policy is being cancelled for an unknown cause?????

Thats like saying "we took a vote and you lost"

1. Did you have a house inspection done before you purchased this house?

2. Have you put in a claim against this insurance company in the past?
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:43 AM   #11
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


Find another carrier, but you are now on record and likely the other carriers will also want you to replace the roof. Based on the pictures you provided the damage is minor. Yes it has ruined the integrity of the roofing system, but let me explain. The loss of granuals has exposed the asphalt matt beneath. The shingles are still doing their job, but the UV will prematurely degrade the exposed asphalt. I think it is unreasonable for them to force you to replace your roof now. The roof is in no immediate danger.

Possible manufacturer warranty claim.

Possible foot traffic damage.

What brand shingles?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:31 AM   #12
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


It turns out it WAS what I am going to assume was dew on the roof. Took a picture this morning and no random color changes. So its just the scuff marks on some shingles. They are all up and down the roof about 2-3 feet from the wall. I presume the roofer roofed the lower roof first and dragged all his materials up or dropped tools in this "pathway". Or it could be from inspectors when the home was for sale.

New Pics:
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/...odesumr/Roof3/

I also provided the nasty letter for everyones viewing pleasure.

I am going to push HARD for only replacing the damged shingles. Though..I dont know how difficult that will be because when I tried to lift one it just broke. So I might have to replace the whole porch roof. Im hoping whatever moron scuffed up this porch roof didnt do it on the main roof!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
"Porch roof observed with 6+ marks of unknown cause per 10x10 area."

So your insurance policy is being cancelled for an unknown cause?????

Thats like saying "we took a vote and you lost"

1. Did you have a house inspection done before you purchased this house?

2. Have you put in a claim against this insurance company in the past?
Yes the home was inspected, no damage mentioned.

Never claimed against any insurance auto or home. This is my first home and just closed Oct 4th so first insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Find another carrier, but you are now on record and likely the other carriers will also want you to replace the roof. Based on the pictures you provided the damage is minor. Yes it has ruined the integrity of the roofing system, but let me explain. The loss of granuals has exposed the asphalt matt beneath. The shingles are still doing their job, but the UV will prematurely degrade the exposed asphalt. I think it is unreasonable for them to force you to replace your roof now. The roof is in no immediate danger.

Possible manufacturer warranty claim.

Possible foot traffic damage.

What brand shingles?
I now agree this is foot traffic/mechanical(something was dragged?).
Any idea how easy it would be to just replace the suspect shingles? I tried to lift one but the tip just broke. I replaced some shingles on my dads roof this summer and it was no problem but they lifted real easily, these ones seem hard.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:13 PM   #13
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


If the scuffs you are showing in your photos are what they are cancelling your insurance for you are in the midst of a scam. Those marks will do nothing worth discussing to the life of your roof.

Did the inspector that looked at this roof recommend anyone to replace your roof? If so, they are in collusion with that roofer.

I am a 66 year old professional roof consultant, and the line you are getting is hogwash. Liberty Mutual is a well respected Insurance Company, so I suspect it is the idiot that looked at your roof. He/She is indeed an idiot, because no roofing professional would write such a statement without backup.

Now there may be some things that are wrong with your roof that I havent seen. But those scuff marks are very common, and do not pose much of a threat to the life of your roof.

I do not like what you said about the tab breaking off in your hand, however. What was the temperature when that happened, and wasen't the tab sealed down to the underlying shingle? there is no way that a 3-4 year old shingle should be that brittle. There was a run of bad shingles back in the early eighties when they cooked all the light oils out of the asphalt before they made the coating asphalt for shingles, but that was corrected due to a raft of failures that they blamed on inadequate ventilation.

I smell a rat, and I have a very experienced nose
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:25 PM   #14
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Help! Insurance says I need to replace my roof


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Originally Posted by jagans View Post
If the scuffs you are showing in your photos are what they are cancelling your insurance for you are in the midst of a scam. Those marks will do nothing worth discussing to the life of your roof.

Did the inspector that looked at this roof recommend anyone to replace your roof? If so, they are in collusion with that roofer.

I am a 66 year old professional roof consultant, and the line you are getting is hogwash. Liberty Mutual is a well respected Insurance Company, so I suspect it is the idiot that looked at your roof. He/She is indeed an idiot, because no roofing professional would write such a statement without backup.

Now there may be some things that are wrong with your roof that I havent seen. But those scuff marks are very common, and do not pose much of a threat to the life of your roof.

I do not like what you said about the tab breaking off in your hand, however. What was the temperature when that happened, and wasen't the tab sealed down to the underlying shingle? there is no way that a 3-4 year old shingle should be that brittle. There was a run of bad shingles back in the early eighties when they cooked all the light oils out of the asphalt before they made the coating asphalt for shingles, but that was corrected due to a raft of failures that they blamed on inadequate ventilation.

I smell a rat, and I have a very experienced nose
Thanks for your input! They did recommend the roofs be replaced even though they never even got on the main roof! They did not mention any specific roofers but you can be sure I will be on the watch if anyone comes to my door "randomly" offering services.

Ahhhh temperature! Im not thinking clearly lately....it was 6am so probably in the mid to upper 30s. Sigh. Only the tip of the tab broke off...maybe 1/4" because the rest is stuck down solid.

I just cant believe all this drama over some foot traffic marks!

I just wish I had a ladder tall enough to reach the main roof :-\
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:16 PM   #15
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What you are going through is fraud, and I suspect it may be tied in some way to your insurance agent. I have NEVER had to have any type of inspection to get insurance on any house I owned, and I have owned 6. You would be doing the next guy a real favor by exposing these people before they rip someone else off. Is it mandatory where you live to have an inspection of your roof before you are insured???? Where do you live?

and yes, shingles with a fiberglass core will break off in 30 degree weather, especially in the AM before the sun hits them. To remove shingles that are already sealed together you have to get up there early before the sun hits them when they are cold and break the bond with a flat bar like a wonder bar by sliding it up under them. Its a dance, or should I say a black art.

Or as my now passed partners dad used to say, roofing gets in your blood, and in your hair, your ears, your eyes, etc. etc. etc.

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