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Homerepairguy 08-01-2010 03:12 PM

Gutter installation questions
 
Hello,

I just registered on diychatroom. I've spent hours googling trying to find answers for my new seamless gutter installation without success. I wanted to post this question in the contractortalk forum but saw posts that said non-contractors should questions in this DIY forum. Hope there are some gutter contractors here that can help me out. (Sorry for this long post but I tried to provide all pertinent info.)

EXISTING ROOF:
I live in an area that never snows. I’m going to have a gutter company install seamless aluminum gutters on our ranch style home. The roof is a low pitch, about 2.5”/foot and has a monolithic Hydrostop type roofing material installed on it. Here’s a picture of how the gutter will attach to the roof fascia:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...flashing02.jpg


The picture shows everything horizontal to make it easy to draw but it should be tilted at a 2.5”/foot angle. The rafter tails are cut 90 degrees so the fascia is 90 degrees to the roof sheathing. So there is a slight inward angle to the fascia but not much. The rafters are 2x4 inches and the fascia is 1x4 inches.

The flashing extends downward 3” as shown. One gutter guy said 3” flashing is used when no gutters are going to be installed. If gutters are going to be installed, the flashing should extend downward 1-1/4 inches (as I recall). So I guess my flashing will extend pretty far down into the gutter.

ATTACHING THE GUTTER:

Gutter Company-A said they plan to cut the flashing where each hidden hanger will go and bend the cut part up. The hangers would then be screwed through the back of the gutter directly to the 3/4” fascia using stainless steel screws with no concern about placing hangers at rafter tails. They would use small clips to hold the bottom of the gutter level (where I wrote ' 6" Gutter' in the picture above) even though the fascia is tilted just a little inward due to the low roof slope.

Gutter Company-B said they plan to screw the hangers through the flashing, through the back of the gutter into the wooden fascia. IOW, they would not cut the flashing where each hanger goes. The hangers would be placed at each rafter tail which would be 2 feet apart using 1” stainless steel screws. They would also use 3/4” stainless steel screws between the rafters screwed through the flashing, through the back of the gutter, into the fascia.

QUESTIONS:

1. I’m concerned with capillary action drawing water up between the gutter and flashing. I read that water can be drawn up 3 inches between two vertical metal pieces in close proximity. This would apply to my gutter back and flashing. How should the gutters be attached to prevent this? Or is Company-B’s method fine and don’t worry about capillary action.

2. Regarding Company-A’s method of cutting the flashing at each hanger, I’m worried that water would be able to go behind the flashing at each cut and then make its way above the gutter back and on to the wooden fascia. I’m I being too paranoid?

3. I decided to have 6 inch gutters installed since the left side of our home is a 50 foot eave run and will only have a single 3x4 downspout at the back end. I don’t want to put a downspout at the front end since our front yard is very small and enclosed by tile walls. There is no place for the water to go at the front. Due to settling of our home, there is a natural slope of the eave toward the back so getting 1/4” slope per 10 feet for the gutter for the entire 50 feet run is not a problem. --- Should I use 6 inch gutters or would 5 inch gutters be sufficient for this situation?

4. I also decided to have 6 inch gutters installed since the flashing extends 3” downward. Since the back of a 5” gutter is 3-1/2” high and the back of a 6” gutter is about 4-7/8” high, I figured the 6” gutter would allow more water in the gutter before the water touches the bottom of the flashing. I’m I being too paranoid about this?

Thanks for your help!

seeyou 08-01-2010 05:52 PM

OK -

The 3" drip edge is a bit of a problem. I don't like the idea of cutting the drip edge, but hidden hangers are designed to hook over the back of the gutter and that can't be done without cutting.

I think I would use SCREWS and ferrules and screw through the drip edge into the rafter tails and shoot some gutter caulk on the back side of the ferrule while using wedges to plumb the gutter.

You need 6' gutter. Your reasoning is correct.

While capillary action is a concern, you're probably being too concerned about it.

Homerepairguy 08-01-2010 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeyou (Post 478863)
OK -

The 3" drip edge is a bit of a problem. I don't like the idea of cutting the drip edge, but hidden hangers are designed to hook over the back of the gutter and that can't be done without cutting.


http://www.aok.org/images/hanger-1.jpg

Company-B showed me a sample hanger. As I recall, it looked something like the above. The hanger is made to just butt the back of the gutter and the screw goes through the back of the gutter into the fascia. --- In my case since the back of the gutter will be behind the flashing, the hanger would butt the flashing and the screw would go through the flashing, through the back of the gutter, into the fascia. So I guess cutting the flashing is not necessary with this style of hanger.

The hanger for Company-A looked similar but it may hook over the back of the gutter and require cutting the flashing as you mentioned.

Quote:

I think I would use SCREWS and ferrules and screw through the drip edge into the rafter tails and shoot some gutter caulk on the back side of the ferrule while using wedges to plumb the gutter.
They won't be able to use long screws and ferrules through the top portion of the gutter since my old gutters were attached that way using aluminum nails and ferrules. So there are holes at every rafter tail already. After removing the old gutters, I had the house re-roofed so the holes are now covered by the new flashing so cannot be seen. Sorry that I neglected to mention this in my first post.

Quote:

You need 6' gutter. Your reasoning is correct.
Thanks for that confirmation.

Quote:

While capillary action is a concern, you're probably being too concerned about it.
Hope to hear from other gutter or roofing contractors for confirmation of the capillary action issue.

Appreciate your help very much,
HomeRepairGuy

seeyou 08-01-2010 09:10 PM

I've never seen those type hangers before. I do mostly copper gutter and the hanger choices are a little more limited.

Homerepairguy 08-01-2010 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeyou (Post 478960)
I've never seen those type hangers before. I do mostly copper gutter and the hanger choices are a little more limited.

Thank your for taking the time to post.

Best regards,
HomeRepairGuy

Tom Struble 08-01-2010 10:19 PM

if your using 1'' screws it makes little difference if your just in the facia or rafter end

Homerepairguy 08-02-2010 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstruble (Post 478994)
if your using 1'' screws it makes little difference if your just in the facia or rafter end

Actually, that's what I was wondering about too. My conclusion is this:

When I built a storage shed, we roofed it using alphalt shingles. All of the procedures I found on the web recommended that the roofing nails go all the way through the roof sheathing for maximum holding power in strong winds. The underside of the roof sheathing looks like a porcupine but it just a shed and the shingles should stay on.

So I'm concluding that the 1" screws at the rafter tails might "just" protrude through the back side of the 3/4" fascia. Though the screws won't actually screw into the rafter tails, they will go all the way through the fascia for maximum holding power.

The 3/4" screws used between the rafters would not go all the way through the fascia for cosmetic reasons but would provide good supplemental holding power to the screws at the rafter tails.

My best guess,
Sky

GutterInstaller 03-15-2012 10:22 AM

Between company A and B, I think company b has the idea, but also company A has the idea also, for me its okay to cut the hangers and use screw to connect the cutted hangers again to come-up a solid gutter .


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