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kennykenny 04-21-2011 08:02 AM

Getting guttering Bids. Help me compare two companies' bids!
 
I am in the process of getting guttering bids for my home. I have narrowed it down to two companies that are well thought of. Both rated a+ by BBB. Both have WC and liability. Company A has a 5 yr warranty while company B offers a 4yr warranty. Following are some more bits of information about their bids and some differences per their estimates:

Company A

*installing 122' of 5' seamless alum. guttering
*85' of 3x4 alum. downspouts with elbows
*guttters installed with hidden hangers
*use #10 screws with rubber washers every 2'
*tear off and removal

Company B

*installing 122' of 5' seamless alum. guttering
*85' of 3x4 alum. downspouts
*all fasteners are ceramic coated deck screws and stainless steel sheet metal screws
*heavy duty hidden duty hangers every 1ft to every 1 1/2 average(twice industry standard)
*gutters given a 2 degree grade and level checked
*All miters are hand cut with no strip or box miters to ensure drip free edge
*all drip edges are pulled and gutters installed uner the drip edge
*tear off and removal

As you can see, company B's estimate is more detailed and complete than A's. Although I am not sure that A is not doing some of the same things as B. Not sure. Need to check if it makes a difference. The hanger distance between the two companies(2' vs 1 to1 1/2), do more hangers make a difference. Or is that over kill? What about the difference in fasteners?

Company A and B difference in their price. B's price is $153.00 higher than A is offering the job. Do you see anything in thier bid that gives a reason for the price difference? B tels me that they can't see how A has a lower price due to price increases etc.

Talking to B, I get a good feeling that they would do a good job and would be very detail oriented. Company A basically gave the bid when I was not home and emailed it to me with no followup. Although I do know people that have done business with A and have had good luck with them. I don't know anyone that has used B other than a referral from my roofer.

I hope that someone can provide me with some guidance. Thanks so much for your input!!

Grumpy 04-21-2011 09:37 AM

Forget the BBB rating, look at the report to see if there are any complaints. That's what really matters. I know some scum bag A hole companies with BBB membership and A ratings but 14 complaints.

What mill thickness of aluminum? I only use .032 for gutters. Most guys use .027. I find the .032 a far superior product and for $0.10 a foot, why not do it right?

The spacing of the brackets/hangers should match that of the rafters. If the rafters are 16" apart then the brackets too shold be 16" apart. The goal is to get as many bracket fasteners through the fascia and into the rafter tails. Most installers fasten to the fascia board which is silly as a heavy load will rip the gutter and the fascia off the building. When the fasteners are installed into the rafter tails it holds not only the gutter but also the fascia board to the building and will never fall off. BTW I am ok with either screw mentioned above.

I am ok with box miters. Strip miters are ok too. There is really no way to ensure a drip free edhe since either will be sealed with caulk and you are relying ont he caulk which will last 10-15 years unless they use the cheap stuff.

Pitching the gutter the standard I have always read is 1/4" slope per 10'. I could do the math and figure the degre but I will say 2* is probably fine. Truth be told much of our pitching is eyeball work. My proposals say that we will slope the gutters towards the downspouts. The last thing I need is someone outside with a digital level checking the gutter asking why our slope is only 1.9*. As long as there is no standing/sitting water in the gutter system you are ok.


You definetly want a drip edge/gutter flashing. Our proposals read "Install new gutter flashing (as possible)." because sometimes it's not possible to remove the old without damaging the roof depending on how the roofers adhered the ice shield. In the cases where we can't remove the old gutter flashing we will mount a new one over the old. Without a gutter flashing your fascia will rot.


Always get clarifrications in writing. You can't go wrong assuming if it's not in writing it's not being done. If they are doing it they'll have no problem putting it into writing. Personally I try to be as detailed as possible so there can be no confusion later on. And yes if it's not in my proposals I don't plan on doing it. Never assume, always ask.



Seriously $153? Seriously? Who the heck cares about $153? No seriously... If you are going to make your decision based on price and there is ONLY a $153 difference, that's just plain WRONG! YOu're talking about $1,500-$2,000 job; and $153 is even a part of your deciding factor? $153 makes the matter not even worth discussing further.

kennykenny 04-21-2011 12:40 PM

Great information! I am going to be having a roof put on prior to the guttering due to a hail storm. Is there specific questions to ask or specific information to tell the roofer to ensure correct proper prep for the gutter install so it is done right? Totally agree about the money issue. Just attempting to pass along all of the facts of the bid. Thanks.

Grumpy 04-21-2011 12:43 PM

The roofer should know what to do, or fire him.

Since I install roofing and gutters it's seldom ever that another gutter contractor would come in right after me to install the gutters. But in the situations where I know the gutters are to be replaced shortly after, I have my roofers tear off the gutters. This way the roofers can drape the ice shield over the edge of the roof and 2" onto the fascia.

The roofes can then install gutter flashing, but I usually let my gutter installers install the gutter flashing. All depends on how you want the flashing installed. Some guys prefer to seal the ice shield to the gutter flashing, that's not my style. I find it to be a regional thing though.

kennykenny 04-21-2011 09:55 PM

Grumpy, with your information, I have found out that Company A uses 0.027 Aluminum for the 5" Guttering ; 0.032 for the 6" Guttering. In your opinion, is that a reason to look elsewhere or worth asking them to rebid offering 0.032 for 5"? I have yet to hear back from Company B.

Thanks again. Your information has been very helpful.

kennykenny 04-21-2011 09:57 PM

Forgot to mention that I also found out:

We use the strongest hidden hangers on the market every 24" , we install them with a #10 x 1 1/2" screw that has a neoprene washer to ensure a watertite seal. We install in the raftertails if there is no fascia board.
3. Pitch vaires on length of the gutter, and how level the fascia/soffit and or roof is. However, typical pitch is 1/4" per 10'.

I guess nothing too earth shattering. Right?

onarooftop 04-21-2011 10:17 PM

I think the 4 and 5 yr. warranties are extremely low. I would ask, why so short?

kennykenny 04-21-2011 10:19 PM

Really? What should I be looking for as far as warranties??

onarooftop 04-21-2011 10:37 PM

I would say a 10 yr. Warranty covering both material and workmanship.

kennykenny 04-21-2011 10:41 PM

do you think that most contractors will typically adjust their warranties when that is what they typically have given?

Grumpy 04-21-2011 10:57 PM

My gutter warranty for aluminum is 6 years. I give 10 years on the roof. I could and I might start giving 10 years on the gutters now having run my own business for 6 years and almost never a leak or call back on gutters. As a contractor would I walk away from a job if a customer asked me to up my warranty? Well, no if I was confident in my work, but ever job is different. Then again with risk comes reward and if I have to up my warranty, taking my risk, I should also up my reward, asking for a higher price.

Is .027 a deal breaker? No not really but I much prefer the .032, it's petty much all we use. Will your lfie end as we know it if they use .027, ehe there's a 60/40 chance that's what you have now. If they'll do it for a reasonable price go for it, especially if you're in a snow area.

kennykenny 04-23-2011 06:43 PM

i'm told that the suppliers in our area, KC, only carry .032 mill gutters in 6 in. Sound reasonable? Is it worth upgrading to 6in? I live in an area that has small trees and not a lot of leaves for quite a while. If go with 6in, still go with 3x4 downspouts? Thanks.

Ed the Roofer 04-23-2011 09:55 PM

How much more for the 6" versus the 5"?

Also, the .032 guage is about 20% stronger than the .027 guage thickness and for me, that would be the more critical factor, along with the gutter hangers being more tightly spaced. I do not like the 2 foot spacing, because if one comes loose, then the span is now 4 foot between brackets.

Ed

kennykenny 04-24-2011 09:10 AM

I need to get the new bids for 6 ft. I was told by one roofer that the .032, 6in comes in less colors. True?

tcleve4911 04-24-2011 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennykenny (Post 633703)
*all drip edges are pulled and gutters installed uner the drip edge
*tear off and removal

That scope of work concerns me.
Are they removing the drip edge?

Tear off & removal of what?

That just needs clarification.....


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