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Old 10-18-2010, 02:13 PM   #16
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GAF Timberline Shingles


Just checked HD and 30 year dim is 33.3 vs limited lifetime at 25 $66/sq vs $88/sq

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Old 10-18-2010, 02:24 PM   #17
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printed on the package is 3 bundles per square, i.e., 33.33 sq ft per bundle. Actual contents of package is 30 sq ft
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:09 PM   #18
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So the longer life shingles have less per bundle? I thought 3/sq was some kinda standard, this means I have to buy more bundles yet the per bundle price is a bit more.

Yes, some shingle brands have 4 and 5 bundles per square.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:14 PM   #19
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printed on the package is 3 bundles per square, i.e., 33.33 sq ft per bundle. Actual contents of package is 30 sq ft
  • Fiberglass Asphalt Construction
  • Standard weight design
  • 30-Year Ltd. Transferable Warranty
  • 5 Yr. Smart Choice® Protection
  • 100 mph Ltd. Wind Warranty1
  • StainGuard® ltd. warranty (available in all areas except the Western Region)
  • Listed Class A Fire – UL 790
  • Passes UL 997 Wind Test, modified to 110 mph3
  • ASTM D7158, Class H
  • ASTM D3161 Type 1, Class F3
  • ASTM D3018 Type 1
  • ASTM D34623
  • CSA A123.5-98
  • Dade County approved3
  • ICC Report Approval3
  • Florida Building Code approved
  • Texas Department of Insurance3
  • Approx. 64 Pieces/Sq. (Metric)
  • Approx. 78 Pieces/Sq. (English)
  • Approx. 3 Bundles/Square
  • Approx. 256 Nails/Sq. (Metric)
  • Approx. 312 Nails/Sq. (English)
  • Exposure: 5 5/8" (Metric)
  • Exposure: 5" (English)
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:22 PM   #20
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printed on the package is 3 bundles per square, i.e., 33.33 sq ft per bundle. Actual contents of package is 30 sq ft
If you go through 1000 consecutive bundles and find each bundle two shingles short of the norm '22' you may have a legal standing to accuse them of fraud, but if it happens once or twice in several thousand bundles than it's an exceptable mechanical/machinery error that happens from time to time.
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:27 PM   #21
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Notice they say "approximate". You can easily notice many bundles being thicker than some of the others while unloading. Noticed it with a few different brands, not just GAF.

The Timberlines we put on today were so thin, I can't believe they can warrant putting a per square weight on them. They sure do cut easy though.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:26 PM   #22
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I counted the shingles in eleven bundles at home plus several bundles at The Home Depot. Each of those bundles had only 20 shingles. A bundle with 22 shingles would still be a bit short.

Mr slyfox posted that I had computed the area incorrectly. I have not seen his explaination of what I did incorrectly.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:41 PM   #23
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Approx 256 nails/sq. (metric)
Approx 312 nails/sq. (English)

What?! English sq is different than Metric sq ?
I thought 100 sq ft = 1 sq

Also 312 nails/sq. = 4.7 per sheet (assuming 66/sq) and 5.2 if you get 20/bundle for a total of 60.

I thought 4 nails per were the standard

So I guess the question is: how many shingles make 1 sq and how many nails are used for each one.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:43 PM   #24
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GAF Timberline Shingles


The poster quotes the package as having:

Approx. 64 Pieces/Sq. (Metric)
Approx. 78 Pieces/Sq. (English)
Approx. 3 Bundles/Square
Approx. 256 Nails/Sq. (Metric)
Approx. 312 Nails/Sq. (English)
Exposure: 5 5/8" (Metric)
Exposure: 5" (English)

The exposure (metric) of 5 5/8 is somewhat inadequate. However, using that exposure, the area of 64 metric pieces is:

64 x 39.25 x 5.625 / 144 = 97.9

A square is 100 sq ft and not 97.9 sq ft. 65 pieces yields only 99.4 sq ft.

BTW, GAF recommends six nails per piece for enhanced wind resistance. The value 256 is 64 x 4.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:48 PM   #25
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the older (discontinued?) "english" size shingles are smaller; therefore more pieces to the square.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheltonfox View Post
I counted the shingles in eleven bundles at home plus several bundles at The Home Depot. Each of those bundles had only 20 shingles. A bundle with 22 shingles would still be a bit short.

Mr slyfox posted that I had computed the area incorrectly. I have not seen his explaination of what I did incorrectly.

I posted my explanation, all you need do is notice the Approx- comment made by the manufacturer.
I wasn't trying to tell you you can't add/multiply, just that you were not fully reading the manufacturers spec's.

I have no idea why you found so many bundles with only 20 shingles,
if it happened to me I would be letting the sales rep at the supply store I purchased them from and he would reinburst me.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:34 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
I posted my explanation, all you need do is notice the Approx- comment made by the manufacturer.
I wasn't trying to tell you you can't add/multiply, just that you were not fully reading the manufacturers spec's.

I have no idea why you found so many bundles with only 20 shingles,
if it happened to me I would be letting the sales rep at the supply store I purchased them from and he would reinburst me
.
I'm gonna have to count some bundles. We've been running a little short frequently.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:59 AM   #28
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Talk to your Rep or supply store Salesman guys. There have been recent changes in the "approximation". 3 bundles doesn't necessarily mean 100 square feet.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:04 AM   #29
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I'm gonna have to count some bundles. We've been running a little short frequently.
The last time I had an abundant of light bundles delivered was back in April/May of this year with a Certainteed Landmark job I did, I called the supplier and they took care of the issue.

Had it happen a couple times with OC, never with Gaf/Elk or Tamko.
Not sure about IKO or Atlas.

Atlas was actually giving us 100+square feet per square for years but than they realized it and shortened the length of their shingles.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:10 PM   #30
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GAF Timberline Shingles


Elk changed the length of the shingle to try to keep out mixing of the different grades of roofing.
"English Cut" refers to the original pattern of Timberline with a 5" exposure. Most factories run the 5 5/8" metric.
When I was an installer the 5" shingles came 81 per square, meaning 27 per bundle. The metric Elk three tab, long gone, had 63 per square or 21 per square.
My concern is that most people don't know that the GAF floor shingles at Home Depot have less curb appeal, or less blending, and have less of a wind warranty than the standard High Definition Timberline most professional roofing companies use. I really wouldn't be surprised if they weigh less too. With all of Home Depot's buying power they could have special runs of material that are inferior in many ways.
We have bought 3n1's, also called auto caulks, at Home Depot that had the grommet completely disintegrate in four years. This has never happened with the same flashings we've purchased at roofing wholesalers.
They also get you on the nail weight and quality. The metal stacks are caulked and not soldered and I've seen felt there that when torn was white in the middle.
I've been a roofing contractor in Dallas for 31 years and was an installer in high school and college. We are Master Elites for GAF and Master Rooers for Certainteed. I believe the products are comparable. Tamko is fine. Owens Corning is mediocre but getting better. Atlas, Malarkey, and Pabco are awful and morally devoid. The only word Atlas and Malarkey's warranty departments know is "no." I'm not even going to take a chance on Pabco.

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