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Old 04-27-2010, 03:34 PM   #31
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EPDM Roof Plans


So you are spfoaming the underside of the roof deck in order not to vent the cavity between the ceiling and roof deck? That is not the purpose of unvented space.

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Old 04-27-2010, 03:38 PM   #32
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EPDM Roof Plans


We are sprayfoaming the underside of the roof deck for two reasons,

1) To achieve the minimum required r value as established by code

2) To do away with the need of venting as it would be cumbersome and would interfere with the ability to properly insulate the structure.

This process is allowed by code here in DC and is done somewhat regularly. An explanation of the process can be found here.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:39 PM   #33
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SO then there will be no insulation on the ceiling?

I am aware of the practice.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:41 PM   #34
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EPDM Roof Plans


The drywall will be attached directly to the roof rafter, there will be no ceiling joists. The entire space between the drywall and the roof deck(7.5") will be filled with sprayfoam.

If there's something off about it, it would be good to know, but my architect is pretty certain about it, as are some of the local contracts I have contacted. Also, the material in the link I shared makes sense and seems authoritative. Perhaps I am explaining things wrong, but if this is horribly wrong, I'd like to figure it out.

Thanks!!

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Old 04-27-2010, 08:54 PM   #35
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Nope, all good.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:45 PM   #36
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Thanks Aaron, sorry I wasn't explaining things so well!

So, can anyone help me to understand the method for "box folding" indicated by Frank? Does anyone have any photos of this practice?
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:33 PM   #37
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Here it come. I took a flat piece of cardboard and bent it into the shape of a step-flashing.
Then I box folded it, kinda step by step. The angle depends on how your corner pitches meet each other.
The last step is to seal the inside of the fold to prevent moisture from getting into the crease and freezing in the winter.
I left one other optional step out. If it tries to unfold any, or you just want to really seal it off, fold the top onto itself to clamp it closed.
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EPDM Roof Plans-box-folding-flashing-2-.jpg   EPDM Roof Plans-box-folding-flashing-3-.jpg   EPDM Roof Plans-box-folding-flashing-4-.jpg   EPDM Roof Plans-box-folding-flashing-5-.jpg   EPDM Roof Plans-box-folding-flashing-6-.jpg  

EPDM Roof Plans-box-folding-flashing-7-.jpg  
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:39 PM   #38
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I jusr remembered I have examples on my website on this page too.
http://www.albertsroofing.com/Metal%...%20Details.htm

There are other helpful details on my site too. Feel free to browse http://www.albertsroofing.com/index.htm
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:00 PM   #39
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The corner worries me, Frank.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:04 AM   #40
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First of all, Frank, wow! Talk about above and beyond. Your pictures were perfect and extremely helpful. Thanks!

Aaron, what are your concerns exactly? Is there a better way to handle this corner in your opinion? Or is your concern about my attempting that corner DIY?

One thought, can I bring the dimensions to a sheet metal shop and have them design something?

Thanks guys, for everything!
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:23 AM   #41
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I'm sure it's the rookie factor. Corners are critical and it's easy to build a leak into the roof.

It will need to be folded to fit, on site. It's almost how you would need to bend EPDM to close it's corner. Only difference is that with EPDM, all the sides would need priming, then, each detail of the fold would need to be glued seperately because it is a contact glue, and the fold would finish on the roof side, not out of site.
Thing is, flashings are never cut in critical areas. Unless you want to use copper and solder to fit. That requires another skill and mindset to do it correctly.
Here's an EPDM corner that looks like crap, but is serviceable. It's not glued because there was no room to work. Less than 2" above the roof deck, and 5" under an overhang with a valley dumping water there too. It should give you an idea.
We roofers prefer not to show our ugly solutions! When I do the upper roof this fall, I will make it prettier and even less visible.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:26 AM   #42
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I'll have limited to no internet this weekend, so you might need to call me if you can't wait for certain answers.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:10 PM   #43
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The thing that worries me is the very point of the fold fatiguing and cracking open.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:58 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronB View Post
The thing that worries me is the very point of the fold fatiguing and cracking open.
A good point Aaron. These are confined to small pieces of step and corners, usually 8" long, 4" wide, 4" tall and I've never even seen an old one that failed. The only failures I've observed was when the applicator turned the fold the wrong way and lots of water was directed into the dwelling behind corners like 1/2 chimneys. And stubits, take note! If at first you bend it wrong, toss it! Do another. Metal can safely fold once. Not twice. Then, you WILL fatigue it.

In your case, the wall counter-flashing will hide the corner itself, the the termination flashing will hide (cover) it again. Any flexible sealant should be fine. Or, like I noted before, it can be folded shut on the top.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:06 PM   #45
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Inside corners on EPDM are easy. Just cut a 12x12 inch piece of flashing, remembering to round your corners. Fold the entire piece in half. Take the remaining half and fold it again in the other direction, but only half way this time so that it looks like an "L". Take the corner of that "L" and shove it into the corner. Worth the inside transition in, and then the two faces of the "L". Now on the other side, slowly unfold the rest of your membrane on the opposing wall. They should meet at the corner. forming a "pig ear". Often times manufacturers want you to place a patch over the "pig ear" as well.

Don't worry about the fold cracking. That is the standard spec for EPDM. If you really are worried about it, put a patch on top of the fold.

FIRESTONE DETAIL: http://www.firestonesp.com/bmt/files...n%20Detail.pdf

--

I've done countless single ply roofs for commercial contractors. If you have a question feel free to ask.

edit: I just read the 2nd page and realized you are going with shingles instead and are talking about putting a corner on your tin shingles. ignore everything i said..


Last edited by chimx; 04-30-2010 at 11:12 PM.
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