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Old 04-21-2010, 02:13 PM   #16
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EPDM Roof Plans


No need to apologize for or explain the delay. You've been tremendously helpful and we've all got to make $$, no? Do you often go out of town for work or mostly stick around the Richmond area? Do you do much work up here in DC?

On the gravel stop, when you say you "overlap the piece of gravelstop 4"," what do you overlap it with, a piece of EPDM?

Do you happen to have any photos of your work? Anything that shows how you've handled some of these terminations, joints, etc? It would be great to see how it is done correctly!

speaking of joints and terminations, how do you handle the corner where the gravelstop meets the drip edge?

Also, can I run through the order of things with you?

1) Install IPO and nailer.

2) Lay EPDM in place and allow to rest/warm up

3) Apply adhesive to roof top and to EPDM

4) Allow adhesive to set until no longer tacky

5) Roll EPDM onto surface

6) Install termination bars and and adhere EPDM to walls

7) Fold inside corners

8) Install drip edge/gravel stop

9) Install gutters

Am I forgetting anything major?

Also,

1) Do you have certain type of adhesive you prefer? Can I use the same adhesive for everything or something different on the walls?

2) Do you install the termination bars to the roof or to the wall? I see it can be done either way.

Thanks, as always!

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Old 04-21-2010, 08:14 PM   #17
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I think you have ot covered, with a minor exception or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubits View Post
No need to apologize for or explain the delay. You've been tremendously helpful and we've all got to make $$, no? Do you often go out of town for work or mostly stick around the Richmond area? Do you do much work up here in DC?

On the gravel stop, when you say you "overlap the piece of gravelstop 4"," what do you overlap it with, a piece of EPDM?
No metal butt joints. Overlap the metal pieces 4"

Do you happen to have any photos of your work? Anything that shows how you've handled some of these terminations, joints, etc? It would be great to see how it is done correctly! Just this. You can see the nailer, the drip-edge, the cover tape and the caulk along it's edges. You can see the screws and discs that hold the ISO down.

speaking of joints and terminations, how do you handle the corner where the gravelstop meets the drip edge?
On the top, cut about 30 degrees left and right from square, to the point where you'll bend it around the corner. Fold so the uphill side is on top. Otherwise, an open edge will face up the roof. Caulk before folding at least 5" up the roof. Then, you can run the gravel stop and cut it flush with the corner. Caulk under it too.
Also, can I run through the order of things with you?

1) Install IPO and nailer. 'ISO'. Yes. Cut to fit as carefully as you can.

2) Lay EPDM in place and allow to rest/warm up. Yes

3) Apply adhesive to roof top and to EPDM Yes. However much EPDM bottom is visible, do that much roof. Remember, you're gonna have little room to move! After it rests, see how much you can fold, then unfold into glue before glueing! Practice until you can do it without wrinkling!

4) Allow adhesive to set until no longer tacky. Yes.

5) Roll EPDM onto surface. Yes

7) Fold inside corners Yes

6) Install termination bars and and adhere EPDM to walls Yes



8) Install drip edge/gravel stop

8A Prime gravel stop and 4" of roof. Install cover Tape

9) Install gutters

Am I forgetting anything major?

Also,

1) Do you have certain type of adhesive you prefer? Can I use the same adhesive for everything or something different on the walls? Same

2) Do you install the termination bars to the roof or to the wall? I see it can be done either way. Wall, at the top of the EPDM sheet.

Thanks, as always!
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:00 AM   #18
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EPDM Roof Plans


OK, so I have a bit of a curve ball now.

In order to avoid having the vent this really small roof, the architect and I decided to seal the underside of the roof with spray foam, an allowable practice here. Long story short, this allows us to have a 3:12 pitch, rather than the 2:12 pitch. She is suggesting we now go with asphalt shingles. This website from the National Roofing Contractors Association indicates that 3:12 is the dividing line between "low-slope" and "steep-slope" and that we could go with either shingles or a membrane.

The plan would be to apply a layer of Grace Ice and Water shield over the entire roof deck and then to use a shingle that is specified for a 3:12 pitch.

What do you think? I think the install would be easier with less room for error.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:51 PM   #19
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As far as venting, is this a warm roof configuration or a cold roof configuration? I think if you really wanted to vent this space, then there could be some other methods rather than spray foam insulating. What would be the purpose of foaming the underside of the roof deck?

I'm a foamer, but foam is not a cure-all and I am having trouble figuring out the purpose.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:17 AM   #20
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Aaron- Thanks for your input. The process we're using is best described in this link. As far as I understand the underside of the roof is coated with the code required amount of closed cell foam insulation (in my case about 7.5" for r-49)," converting the attic space into part of the conditioned envelope of the home and eliminating the need for any attic ventilation.

What are you're thoughts on this?
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Old 04-24-2010, 02:09 PM   #21
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Do you have insulation on the ceiling? If so, then are you planning to remove the existing insulation? Is this going to be your building envelope insulation?
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Old 04-24-2010, 02:19 PM   #22
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If it going to be your insulation, just apply it to the ceiling and leave your roof and put in some venting if you're going to use shingles and leave it as a cold roof. As long as you have the air space above the and below the deck, you will need to vent it. Best to keep the insulation on the ceiling and vent the roof, unless your roof deck is your ceiling, then no need to vent.

BTW I know that theoretically, 7 inches of closed cell foam adds up to R 49, but 4 inches of spray foam is max effective. After that diminishing returns sets in. 49 is a theoretical laboratory number that cannot be truly achieved.
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:28 PM   #23
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Thanks Aaron for the input.

This is new construction, a small 5x10 roof for an addition. In this case, the ceiling drywall will attach directly to the roof rafters(2x8). The plan is to fill that entire cavity, 7.5" with spray foam. R-49 is required by code, even if it is a mythical number!

So, will this work? Especially with a shingled roof? What are your thoughts on a shingled roof with a 3:12 pitch? We'll be coating the entire deck with ice and water shield.

Thanks so much!
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubits View Post
Thanks Aaron for the input.

This is new construction, a small 5x10 roof for an addition. In this case, the ceiling drywall will attach directly to the roof rafters(2x8). The plan is to fill that entire cavity, 7.5" with spray foam. R-49 is required by code, even if it is a mythical number!

So, will this work? Especially with a shingled roof? What are your thoughts on a shingled roof with a 3:12 pitch? We'll be coating the entire deck with ice and water shield.

Thanks so much!
Most dimensional shingles are allowable down to 2/12 with I&WS on the entire deck. I've been doing it for 10-12 years with no repercussions.

I see no problem with what you propose. In fact, I like it better than the EPDM solution.
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:23 PM   #25
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See you, just curious, why do you think this is the better solution? I am glad to hear it.

Also, aside for the I&W, do you do anythinf differently or special for the lower slope? Do you have a favorite shingle for the application?

Also, this is a shed roof style as shown in the drawing from an earlier post. I am not sure how to handle the flashing at the inside corner. Any thoughts?
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:36 PM   #26
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why do you think this is the better solution?

I think a 30 year shingle will outlast EPDM for less money.

do you do anythinf differently or special for the lower slope?


No.

Do you have a favorite shingle for the application?

I like Certainteed and Tamko products best, but product quality and representation vary from region to region. The shingles I get in KY probably come from a different factory than the ones you get in DC.

I am not sure how to handle the flashing at the inside corner.

The side against the parapet will be step flashed (one step flashing per course of shingles) and counter flashed. The counter flashing can be cut into the mortar joints and stepped up as the roof rises or cut through the parapet material parallel to the roof.

The top will be flashed with an apron that lays over the shingles and the top step flashing and is counter flashed into the wall.
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:20 PM   #27
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See You- Thanks for all the help! So, you don't see any problems with how I plan to seal/insulate the roof?

Thanks for the info on the flashing. I guess I am just concerned at the corner where the parapet wall meets the top. Do I need to do anything special there? it seems like a possible intrusion point.

Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:09 AM   #28
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bump.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:48 PM   #29
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You'll have to 'box-fold the last piece of step-flashing. DO NOT CUT it. Practice with sheets of paper until you get the fold right. The termination/head flashing goes on next, then the counter-flashing.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:49 PM   #30
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Frank, thanks!

What do you think of going with shingles instead of EPDM here?

And can you explain the method for box folding please? Perhaps you have a photo or two?

Thanks!!


Last edited by stubits; 04-27-2010 at 03:09 PM.
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