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Old 04-06-2010, 11:11 AM   #1
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EPDM Roof Plans


We're just about done with the design phase of an addition to our 1933 DC row house. I plan to do most of the work myself and would like to be able to do the roof too. The addition has a modest footprint of 5'x10' and requires a roof with a 2:12 pitch or less. Our architect has called for asphalt shingles and has indicated certain brands that allow that pitch. She has also called for us to install ice and water shield over the entire roof. We will also be sealing the underside of the roof with closed cell spray foam insulation doing away with the need for ventilation. Based on what I have read, on the internet and in elsewhere, I am really uncomfortable using shingles for a roof of this slope, it just doesn't seem to be the best product.

I would like to install an EPDM roof. It seems more DIY friendly than other materials and it seems as though I can probably cover the whole roof with one piece and no seems. I have a couple of questions though. I have attached some images to give you a feel for what I am dealing with.

1) Does this seem like the right way to go? Is EPDM a good choice here? There's plenty of sun, no trees above, so no debris.

2) It seems like I would want to run the EPDM material up the existing brick walls on the back (north) and side (east wall), up and under the current parapet roof cap. Is that right? How difficult will it be to remove those parapet roof caps (how are they usually held on)? Is there any need to replace the caps? Will I use a termination bar to secure the EPDM under the cap?

3) I assume I will install a drip edge along the front (south) wall where the roof drains into the gutter, correct?

4) What type of an edge would I install along the remaining edge, left or west side of the roof? Is there something that will help to keep the water from spilling over onto my neighbor's property?

5) Also, what do I need to do at the vertical termination on the southernmost part of the east wall?Obviously the EPDM will be adhered all the way up the side of the wall, but what do I do at that outside corner?

Any other thoughts, comments, concerns?

Thanks so much!!









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Old 04-06-2010, 07:58 PM   #2
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Go with EPDM. Buy 1" ISO insulation for underlay. It will prevent wood splinters, nails, etc. from poking holes. Since the buildings adjoin, get .060 Fire-rated. If you don't, you may find yourself re-doing it.I like to puta 1x8 plank arounf the perimeter to act as a solid nailer for the dripedge, then fill in with the ISO. It also acts as a 'step-down' to the cover tape that goes over the drip-edge so water doesn't pond.

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Old 04-06-2010, 07:59 PM   #3
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It seems I can't post pix anymore. Oh well.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:24 PM   #4
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Had to re-boot. I couldn't even get smilies to work!

These are edges with the 1x8 surrounding the perimeter.

On your inside corners, fold, don't cut to get your fit! You'll have to prime, then glue each side seperately as you go. Use a practice piece first, second and third times! You ony get one chance!
Attached Thumbnails
EPDM Roof Plans-small-epdm-job-3-.jpg   EPDM Roof Plans-epdm-job-2-.jpg  
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:34 AM   #5
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EPDM Roof Plans


Tinner, thanks so much. Looks like you're down in Richmond, so not too far away. My wife's got family down there.

OK, so they actually make fire rated EPDM? Just making sure it is the EPDM and not the ISO that is fire rated. I should be able to get this from a roofing supply store, right?

Thanks for the tip on the 1x8 and the photos, very helpful.

I can adhere the EPDM directly to the brick, right? Does it require a different type of adhesive? Would you run it straight up the wall and under the parapet cap?

So, I will use a drip edge along the front edge where the gutter will be, but what do I do along the other outer edge, the longer one? Do I want to use something like a gravel stop?

Thanks!
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:52 PM   #6
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OK, so they actually make fire rated EPDM? Just making sure it is the EPDM and not the ISO that is fire rated. I should be able to get this from a roofing supply store, right? Yes


Thanks for the tip on the 1x8 and the photos, very helpful.



I can adhere the EPDM directly to the brick, right? Yes


Does it require a different type of adhesive? No. But, you do need to buy a rool of RM Strip to machanically fasten to the deck, at the wall. It self-adheres to the EPDM.






Would you run it straight up the wall and under the parapet cap? You can if it doesn't exceed 3'. If it exceeded 2', I'd prefer to machanically fasten it at 2', then mechanically fasten another piece under the parapet and have it overlap the lower piece. Or, it can be mechanically fastened with 'Term Bar' and caulked with the proper caulk 1' above the deck.



So, I will use a drip edge along the front edge where the gutter will be, but what do I do along the other outer edge, the longer one?
Do I want to use something like a gravel stop?

If you don't water to go over that edge, use a gravel stop shaped piece.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:38 AM   #7
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Tinner-

Thanks so much, this is all awesome advice.

So, when the EPDM goes vertical I should use something like this, right? Should it end up looking something like this? Do I need to install cant strips?

Also, where the EPDM terminates on the vertical, is this the correct method? What is the GenFlex Water Stop product their using there, I can't find it? What does it do?

It seems like the best bet for me is to run it up under the parapet cap. On the back wall, there is less than 1' between the roof and the cap and even way down on the bottom right, it is around 2'. This makes sense, right? How hard should it be to remove the parapet cap and get this up there? Will I need to replace the cap? What's your experience?

Then on the left hand side I will use a gravel stop, to avoid watering going over. The gravel stop gets installed like this and then specifically at the wall like this, right? Are all gravel stops as involved as in the first picture, or is there something simpler?

Along that front edge, I will install a drip edge and then a gutter, right?

And I want to install a 1x8 plank all around the roof, on all four sides, is that right?

Also, can I use a single piece of EPDM or will it be too large to be manageable? Probably, 10x12 or so?

Thanks so much!

Last edited by stubits; 04-08-2010 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:58 AM   #8
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Bump.
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Old 04-10-2010, 05:16 PM   #9
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Hey Tinner. Thanks for all your help. Any thoughts on my last post?
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Old 04-13-2010, 04:51 PM   #10
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Sorry about the delay. I was out of town, then too busy and tired to check in. Sorry about that.
Right on the first 3 links. On the forth, about the drip-edge, I nail to commercial specs of 4" o.c. I've seen too many of them flex and break the seal.
The last link is an optional method. I think I'd just forget that one. It just goes against the grain to poke hole along the perimeter and then pray the cover tape holds up.

You're looking good.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:59 AM   #11
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Frank-

You've got nothing to apologize for at all. I cannot begin to thank you enough for your help.

So, a couple more questions if you don't mind.

1) So, if that 5th link is optional, how do you handle where the gravel stop meets the wall?

2) What about link #5 makes it worse than link #3? They just seem pretty similar to me.

3) Since the roof is only 5x10, would you suggest using a solid piece of EPDM, so there are no seams? In my case maybe a 10x12 piece would do?

4) I am up here in Washington, DC and it seems like the nearest distributor for Gen Flex is either Baltimore or Richmond, not impossible at all, but are there any other brands you like? I know you're not a fan of Firestone.

5) For the drip edge, gravel stop, etc., do you usually buy those at the roofing supply house or from a sheet metal shop? I don't need huge lengths and they seem like common materials, can I buy them off the rack, so to speak, or are they always custom?

6) Where the EPDM terminates on the vertical, this seems to be the correct method, but what is the GenFlex Water Stop product their using there, I can't find it? What does it do?

7) How difficult is it to work with an existing parapet cap/coping? Mine is older more than it is new and I am afraid of messing with it.

8) Have you ever worked with this type of gutter, one that has a flange? Seems like it would work well here and would do away with the need for a drip edge. Or do you always use a drip edge and then a standard gutter?

9) You mentioned installed a 1x8 nailer, just to confirm, it should be on all four sides, right? Does it need to be pressure treated?

10) This seems pretty straight forward, is it really? Is an EPDM roof really DIY-able?

Thanks for everything!!
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:24 PM   #12
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quote=stubits;428571]Frank-

Here we go.

So, a couple more questions if you don't mind.

1) So, if that 5th link is optional, how do you handle where the gravel stop meets the wall? I cut the front off, to whatever shape seems to fit the situation best, turn the flat part up about 3".

2) What about link #5 makes it worse than link #3? They just seem pretty similar to me. #5 is driving nails through the roof itself. The RM strip goes under the roof and seems to help with movement of the roof. No holes in the EPDM

3) Since the roof is only 5x10, would you suggest using a solid piece of EPDM, so there are no seams? In my case maybe a 10x12 piece would do?
Absolutely! Seam, wall, drip edges and any 'detail' area is the bain of DIY'ers and pro's alike.
4) I am up here in Washington, DC and it seems like the nearest distributor for Gen Flex is either Baltimore or Richmond, not impossible at all, but are there any other brands you like? I know you're not a fan of Firestone. I've used Firestone. No headaches there. Look for the local Bradco Supply.

5) For the drip edge, gravel stop, etc., do you usually buy those at the roofing supply house or from a sheet metal shop? Roof supply store. Get the 024 aluminum, or whatever commercial thickness it comes in.
I don't need huge lengths and they seem like common materials, can I buy them off the rack, so to speak, or are they always custom? Off the rack, 10' is standard.

6) Where the EPDM terminates on the vertical, this seems to be the correct method, but what is the GenFlex Water Stop product their using there, I can't find it? Your supplier will direct you to the correct culk. Black Jack Neoprene, Geo-Cel EPDM, or equivalent. They all seem alike.
What does it do? In the example shown, they're just sealing the edges until the adhesive fully cures.
7) How difficult is it to work with an existing parapet cap/coping? Mine is older more than it is new and I am afraid of messing with it. Case sensitive is all I can say. Some are fine with mortar nails and termination bar. Some are so soft, they must be re-pointed by a mason, or you just glue all the way up and over and let the EPDM seal it.
I get to that point, I might go from plan A to plan H before I find what will work.

8) Have you ever worked with this type of gutter, one that has a flange? Seems like it would work well here and would do away with the need for a drip edge. No.
Or do you always use a drip edge and then a standard gutter? Yes.

9) You mentioned installed a 1x8 nailer, just to confirm, it should be on all four sides, right? Does it need to be pressure treated? Just the edges that get metal drip-edge. It won't serve any purpose along the wall.
Plain wood. If it's wet enough for PT, you have a big problem.

10) This seems pretty straight forward, is it really? Is an EPDM roof really DIY-able?Yes and Yes. Take your time. It's contact glue. It must be rolled in. You only get one shot. On small ones like this and there is no room to move, I'll only glue 1' to 18" of roof and EPDM, let it set and roll the EPDM in. Repeat as necessary. Your best bet is to lay it out, roll it back, and do some test runs WITHOUT GLUE until you feel confident. I have, especially on smaller awkward ones. Especially in the corners where pig-earing is necessary to figure out the correct fold. With EPDM, fold and try to never cut!,,,,,,,

Thanks for everything!![/quote]
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:36 AM   #13
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Wow Frank, thanks so much. You're great at explaining things... it is really making a lot of sense now and I am feeling more confident about taking this on!

I've got a couple of follow-on questions.

1) I am still not understanding how to terminate the gravel stop. Do you have any photos, or know of any diagrams, etc?

2) When installing the gutter, does the EPDM get installed over or under the fascia board? The drip edge and the gutter get installed over the fascia board, right?

3) Regarding the parapet wall, if it does turn out to be a mess and soft, are you suggesting to run the EPDM up and over the brick wall OR actually over the parapet wall coping all together?

4) Also, totally unrelated, but I see you are an expert slate guy, is there anyway to clean roofing tar/cement off of slate. Our front roof is slate, but the previous owner or some workers must have spilled tar/roofing cement on it. The roof works, but isn't as attractive as it could be. Thoughts?

Thanks so much!!
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubits View Post
Wow Frank, thanks so much. You're great at explaining things... it is really making a lot of sense now and I am feeling more confident about taking this on!

I've got a couple of follow-on questions.

1) I am still not understanding how to terminate the gravel stop. Do you have any photos, or know of any diagrams, etc?

2) When installing the gutter, does the EPDM get installed over or under the fascia board? The drip edge and the gutter get installed over the fascia board, right?

3) Regarding the parapet wall, if it does turn out to be a mess and soft, are you suggesting to run the EPDM up and over the brick wall OR actually over the parapet wall coping all together?

4) Also, totally unrelated, but I see you are an expert slate guy, is there anyway to clean roofing tar/cement off of slate. Our front roof is slate, but the previous owner or some workers must have spilled tar/roofing cement on it. The roof works, but isn't as attractive as it could be. Thoughts?

Thanks so much!!
I'll try to give Frank a breather for a minute.

1) I am still not understanding how to terminate the gravel stop.

Lap the EPDM over the fascia a little, so the excess will be hidden by the vertical leg of the gravel stop. Nail the gravel stop over the EPDM and then prime the roof flange of the gravel stop and apply a strip of uncured tape over the flange lapping back over the membrane.

2) When installing the gutter, does the EPDM get installed over or under the fascia board? The drip edge and the gutter get installed over the fascia board, right?

Over - all three over.

3) Regarding the parapet wall, if it does turn out to be a mess and soft, are you suggesting to run the EPDM up and over the brick wall OR actually over the parapet wall coping all together?

Over the wall, under the coping.

4) Also, totally unrelated, but I see you are an expert slate guy, is there anyway to clean roofing tar/cement off of slate. Our front roof is slate, but the previous owner or some workers must have spilled tar/roofing cement on it. The roof works, but isn't as attractive as it could be. Thoughts?

I don't have a good answer for that. Frank?
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:31 PM   #15
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Sorry. I had to go out of town for a job. Thanks Seeyou!

I overlap the piece of gravel stop 4" with two beads of waterstop under the joint.

As for terminating at a wall, I cut and fold to see what efficiently closes any openings in a watertite manner that does not direct water into the home. And does not leave ANY gaps or edges facing up the roof.
Sorry I can't explain it any better than that. I can't even tell other roofers how I do it. I can show them, but still can't explain myself sometimes.

As fro cleaning the slate. 'Oops!' may work. Either scrape it off gently, or replace the slate. I believe I've detailed that on my site, but it's not for a rookie, or faint of heart.

About the nailer for the drip edges. I always extend it over the fascia and the rake 1/2". It gives a gap for installing gutter and on the rake, allows the water to drip as opposed to just run down the siding.

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