Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Roofing/Siding

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-03-2007, 06:46 AM   #1
Member
 
FatAugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Question

DIY roof replacement questions


Hi Everyone,

OK, going to do my own roof. Stop laughing.


GAF materials from start to finish. 4/12 gable roof with nothing except 3 stink vents to flash. Going with Timberline Ultra shingles, metric size (that's what they offer in this area, no choice). Been talking with Ed about proper ventilation, so that part is covered. I have a few questions.

Drip edge under the Ice and Water guard stuff? The instructions say so, but I thought I read a conflicting statement somewhere else, saying put above the I&W.

Starter strip made from the Timberline's or should I spring for a starter strip? Also, starter strip along the rake edges? Or is Roof cement (thin application, 4" wide) to help seal the rake against wind better?

Would you run I&C along the rake? Or is that overkill? What about at the ridge?

That's all I can think of for now.

Thanks,

Tony

FatAugie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 07:01 AM   #2
Member
 
RippySkippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 1,233
Rewards Points: 500
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by FatAugie View Post
Drip edge under the Ice and Water guard stuff?
Right. Think like water, don't give it a ledge to go in or under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatAugie View Post
...starter strip along the rake edges? Or is Roof cement (thin application, 4" wide) to help seal the rake against wind better?
I wouldn't do either. In addition to the rest of the nailing, put one about 1-1/2" in from the edge. Unless your in a high wind area, the normal seal down will work fine. If you'd feel better, you could put a dot of cement on the tab to help hold it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatAugie View Post
Would you run I&C along the rake? Or is that overkill? What about at the ridge?
Yes. Some use a half width I&W up the rake. Personally, I use full width. I wouldn't do the ridge. As long as you run your shingles and tar paper over the ridge, you won't have a problem.

Good luck...wish I could help!

RippySkippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 07:58 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 197
Rewards Points: 150
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by FatAugie View Post
Hi Everyone,

OK, going to do my own roof. Stop laughing.


GAF materials from start to finish. 4/12 gable roof with nothing except 3 stink vents to flash. Going with Timberline Ultra shingles, metric size (that's what they offer in this area, no choice). Been talking with Ed about proper ventilation, so that part is covered. I have a few questions.

Drip edge under the Ice and Water guard stuff? The instructions say so, but I thought I read a conflicting statement somewhere else, saying put above the I&W.

Starter strip made from the Timberline's or should I spring for a starter strip? Also, starter strip along the rake edges? Or is Roof cement (thin application, 4" wide) to help seal the rake against wind better?

Would you run I&C along the rake? Or is that overkill? What about at the ridge?

That's all I can think of for now.

Thanks,

Tony

I am doing my own roof too. Let me tell you, it is 10 times more work than I expected. I have about 5 squares left on a 24 square job. I think GAF Timberline is their laminate line. You should use the sovereign 3 tabs for your starter and ridge caps. You could buy Timbertex for your ridges though, if you like that look. I ran ice and water at the eves. I ran it uner the drip edge. You should run all of you felt and ice and water under if you are going to cement. I went that route also. I used about a 6 in spread at the eves and rakes. I didn't waste any money using ice and water at the rakes only at the eves. Good luck
Malcolm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 07:12 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by FatAugie View Post

GAF materials from start to finish. 4/12 gable roof with nothing except 3 stink vents to flash. Going with Timberline Ultra shingles, metric size (that's what they offer in this area, no choice). Been talking with Ed about proper ventilation, so that part is covered. I have a few questions.

1. Drip edge under the Ice and Water guard stuff? The instructions say so, but I thought I read a conflicting statement somewhere else, saying put above the I&W.

2. Starter strip made from the Timberline's or should I spring for a starter strip? Also, starter strip along the rake edges? Or is Roof cement (thin application, 4" wide) to help seal the rake against wind better?

3. Would you run I&C along the rake? Or is that overkill? What about at the ridge?

That's all I can think of for now.

Thanks,

Tony
Answers

1. The best way to install the Gutter Apron Drip Edge, which is different than the gable edge Drip Edge, aka ODE, is to install the Ice and Water shield first, with the bottom 2-4 inches going down onto the fascia boards behind the back side of the gutter. (It is easy to loosen the fasteners on about half the gutter and let it hang, but not twist, so you can install the I & W shield.

Now, install the Gutter Apron Drip Edge aluminum metal flashings.

Now, take the roll of I & W shield, and with a sharp stanly straight blade knife, lay a 3"-4" board across the 3 foot wide roll at the very end and cut off enough 3 foot long sections which are now 3"-4" wide and cut very straight from using the board as a straight edge, and cover the top exposed portion of the Gutter Apron Drip Edge metal flashing.

Now, all of your bases are covered for any potential ice damming leak.

PS; Since you are taking the original 3 foot wide roll and extending about 4" down the fascia, make sure you still have enough material to provide the correct amount of coverage onto the decking as local codes and common sense requires.

I suggest going a "MINIMUM" of 24 " past the location of the interior wall where the heated interior environment is located. Some codes state only 12" past the interior heated wall location, but I have still seen Ice Damming leaks occur further up the slope than just the minimum of 12".

Now is the time to do it right. Don't be cheap now and regret it later.

2. Never use an architctural field shingle as the starter strip.

If you use 3-tab shingles, you must cut off the tabs very straight and then align the sealant strips toward the perimeter edge. Since you will have a lot of cutting to do with this, you may end up with some raggedy edges.

I strongly suggest purchasing the pre-cut 7" starter strip shingles to save on all of the cutting. The end result will be to save you a lot of time and not add much expense to the project and to have a cleaner and straighter looking appearance to the gable and eave edges where this will be seen.

If you are in a high wind area, then small dabs of roofing cement frem a caulking gun tube versus a full troweling of 4" or so wide roofing cement. If you are not in a high wind area and just want to be a little on the cautious side, then make sure you add additional nails to the exterior perimeter for both the starteer strip shingles and the actual field shingles.

3. I personally think that I & W shield along the gable edges is over kill, but the Grace brochure shows it as a desired location to include. If the ODE perimeter edge sheet metal is installed properly and you have the required 1/2" to 3/4" overhanging extension of the starter and field shingles, thenm I see no need for it along the gable edges.

But, since you will be doing the labor yourself, all it costs you is the price of the materials. It's your call.

No, not at the ridge.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 05:59 AM   #5
Member
 
FatAugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by RippySkippy View Post

Good luck...wish I could help!

HA! I wish you could too. I'd even make strip steaks on the grill and all the beer you could drink when you're done for the day.

Thanks for the info. We do have pretty good winds here so I think I need a little something extra at the edge.
FatAugie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 06:37 AM   #6
Member
 
FatAugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Answers

1. The best way to install the Gutter Apron Drip Edge, which is different than the gable edge Drip Edge, aka ODE, is to install the Ice and Water shield first, with the bottom 2-4 inches going down onto the fascia boards behind the back side of the gutter. (It is easy to loosen the fasteners on about half the gutter and let it hang, but not twist, so you can install the I & W shield.

I don't have a gutter at the moment, but plan on installing them "someday".
Can I install the gutter apron drip edge at a later time with no problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
Now, install the Gutter Apron Drip Edge aluminum metal flashings.

Now, take the roll of I & W shield, and with a sharp stanly straight blade knife, lay a 3"-4" board across the 3 foot wide roll at the very end and cut off enough 3 foot long sections which are now 3"-4" wide and cut very straight from using the board as a straight edge, and cover the top exposed portion of the Gutter Apron Drip Edge metal flashing.

Now, all of your bases are covered for any potential ice damming leak.

PS; Since you are taking the original 3 foot wide roll and extending about 4" down the fascia, make sure you still have enough material to provide the correct amount of coverage onto the decking as local codes and common sense requires.

I suggest going a "MINIMUM" of 24 " past the location of the interior wall where the heated interior environment is located. Some codes state only 12" past the interior heated wall location, but I have still seen Ice Damming leaks occur further up the slope than just the minimum of 12".

Now is the time to do it right. Don't be cheap now and regret it later.
That is the one thing that won't happen. I've spec'd for a top of the line project, I'm not going to try and save a buck now. The one challenge will be, with a 4 foot overhang on the front...I forsee many rolls being applied. No problem, what's another couple hundred to get it done right? I'm spending over 2K on materials, busting my butt to do it myself....to go cheap now would be silly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
2. Never use an architectural field shingle as the starter strip.

If you use 3-tab shingles, you must cut off the tabs very straight and then align the sealant strips toward the perimeter edge. Since you will have a lot of cutting to do with this, you may end up with some raggedy edges.

I strongly suggest purchasing the pre-cut 7" starter strip shingles to save on all of the cutting. The end result will be to save you a lot of time and not add much expense to the project and to have a cleaner and straighter looking appearance to the gable and eave edges where this will be seen.

If you are in a high wind area, then small dabs of roofing cement from a caulking gun tube versus a full troweling of 4" or so wide roofing cement. If you are not in a high wind area and just want to be a little on the cautious side, then make sure you add additional nails to the exterior perimeter for both the starter strip shingles and the actual field shingles.
Actually, I was thinking first to use the GAF rolls of starter strip, then I was thinking of using the extra architectural shingles for the starter, now I'm leaning back to using the rolls.

I bought probably 3 square extra to make sure I had enough to complete the job. This way, I'm not on the roof trying to figure out how I can get to the supply yard for the extra bundle I'm missing to finish the job. Also, I plan on keeping a spare bundle in the garage for any repairs that may need to take place. This way, I have the correct color match. The yard said they'd credit any bundles returned so it seems like a no-brainer to over order.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
3. I personally think that I & W shield along the gable edges is over kill, but the Grace brochure shows it as a desired location to include. If the ODE perimeter edge sheet metal is installed properly and you have the required 1/2" to 3/4" overhanging extension of the starter and field shingles, then I see no need for it along the gable edges.

But, since you will be doing the labor yourself, all it costs you is the price of the materials. It's your call.

No, not at the ridge.

Ed
Once again, thanks for the info.
FatAugie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 08:21 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by FatAugie View Post

1. I don't have a gutter at the moment, but plan on installing them "someday".
Can I install the gutter apron drip edge at a later time with no problems?

2. Actually, I was thinking first to use the GAF rolls of starter strip, then I was thinking of using the extra architectural shingles for the starter, now I'm leaning back to using the rolls.
1. The Guter Apron sheet metal drip edge metal would be a real pain in the azz to install after the shingle are already in place. You need to nail the top portion of the sheet metal, which would require the lifting up and bending backwards of the starter shingles and the field architectural shingles.

The G.A. only costs about .42 cents to .50 cents per foot, so install it as I suggested with the Ice and Water Shield under it and stripped in over the top edge.

2. The choice is yours, but on the starter "ROLLS" I have used in the past, there was a minor tendency for them to get wrinkles or a buckled appearance to them while rolling them out. I much more prefer the 7" starter strip shingles for the proper starter material on a new roofing installation.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 09:24 AM   #8
Member
 
FatAugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


1. Ok, sorry for being dense, but instead of the drip edge? Or in addition to it?


2. Got it. Thanks!
FatAugie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 10:35 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


It might just be a difference in semantics, but the Gutter Apron is a drip edge sheet metal flashing specifically made for the eave edges of a home.

The bend is at a slight angle higher than a 90 degree bend to accomodate the pitch of the roof.

A regular T-style or ODE, (Overhanging Drip Edge), and it goes by other names as well, is a piece with about a 1 3/4" leg going down the fascia with a kick-out bend at the bottom. The bend is exactly a 90 degee, and the top has about a 3/8" tightly crimped edge which overhangs past the fascia board providing support for the newly installed shingles which overhang over the gable edge of the home.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 10:43 AM   #10
Commercial Roofing
 
AaronB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 927
Rewards Points: 500
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Right on, Ed!

I despise seeing an ODE on the gutter edge. Makes my skin crawl.
__________________
www.roseroofing.net/ Free inspection within 12 miles
Seamless Polyurea Roofing Membranes for Metal Roofing, Roof Leak Repair, Seamless Commercial Spray Foam Insulation, Seamless Commercial Roofing, SPF Roofing, Industrial Insulation, Our trucks are red but our roofing is GREEN!
AaronB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 11:06 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


I immediately think, jack-leg gypsy contractor or ill advised home owner every time I see the ODE at the eave edge.

Plus, the Gutter Apron extends down about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch farther down for a better seal into an intended gutter trough.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 12:46 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 191
Rewards Points: 150
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


If the roof is a 4/12 pitch it is considerd to be low slope and should have full coverage of Ice&water shield on the whole thing. Starters on the rake yes.



RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com
RooferJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 02:03 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Jim,

The NRCA defines a steep slope roof as one that is greater than a 3/12 pitch.

I disagree that a 4/12 would require 100 % coverage with Ice and Water Shield membrane. I would use it judiciously along all of the gutter or eave edges though, ensuring that the membrane gets installed to a point of at least 24" past the heated interior wall dividing line.

Ed

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 08-08-2007 at 07:21 AM.
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 05:50 PM   #14
Member
 
FatAugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


As it turns out, on the front of the house 24" into the warm area is almost half the roof anyway.

Thanks for the gutter edging info. Until now, I thought drip edge (ODE) was for any edge other than the ridge, I didn't even know gutter edge existed. I'm embarrassed I am that naive about it.
FatAugie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2007, 09:27 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

DIY roof replacement questions


Don't be.

At least 20-25% of all roofs that I inspect for an estimate either contain no Gutter Apron drip edge flashing or have the incorrectly instlled ODE drip edge flashing installed instead.

As Aaron stated previously, it makes my skin crawl.

Ed


Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 08-08-2007 at 07:20 AM.
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
roof repair questions Salvatorparadise Roofing/Siding 2 02-19-2007 08:22 PM
questions about wood shake roof oraph Roofing/Siding 4 10-26-2006 05:10 AM
Roof Cleaning before replacement.. RoofWarrior Roofing/Siding 3 05-15-2006 02:59 PM
Flat Roof Replacement Quote Questions rocketmahn Roofing/Siding 1 01-02-2006 06:01 PM
Torch Roof Replacement Question Chad262 Roofing/Siding 6 09-21-2005 07:29 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.