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Old 07-21-2009, 07:31 AM   #31
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photosbyjv

I see from the contract you posted it does state that the old felt will be removed. I also spec out in my contracts whether the old felt is to be removed or not. Depending on what part of the country your from stripping the roof down to the bare decking may or may not be S.O.P.
I have had occasions where the HO specified that they wanted the old roofing material stripped down to the bare decking and when the crew began working they weren't removing the old felt. In all cases it was either caught by myself, a field supervisor or the HO. If I caught it, it was corrected.
If the field supervisor caught it, it was correted. If the HO caught it they simply called pointed it out and it was corrected.
I have also rolled out felt over an area where there was bad decking to get the roof dried in to keep it water tight over night. The next day we simply removed the felt and replaced the damaged or rotted roof decking.
I have seen hundreds of hack jobs over the years, but I have never seen anyone try to roof over an area that was as rotted as the area that you posted in your photo.
I have also rolled felt over penetrations as you describe to keep the roof water tight overnight. There is no carbon monoxide produced as you stated and you are not going to die in your sleep.
And I have also had neighbors who were purported "ex roofers" monitor and critique the work as it was being performed. The purported neighbor "ex roofers" where all knows who didn't know there azz from a hole in the ground.
You used the word "nitpicky" to describe yourself. I'm sorry but I call into question your being completely transparent about your role in fueling this fire.
Actually I feel sorry for the next guy who comes in to complete the job with you, your husband and the "ex roofer" neighbors all sitting in the yard in lounge chairs directing the professionals on all the things they are doing wrong.

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Old 07-21-2009, 09:09 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roofrite View Post
photosbyjv

I see from the contract you posted it does state that the old felt will be removed. I also spec out in my contracts whether the old felt is to be removed or not. Depending on what part of the country your from stripping the roof down to the bare decking may or may not be S.O.P.
I have had occasions where the HO specified that they wanted the old roofing material stripped down to the bare decking and when the crew began working they weren't removing the old felt. In all cases it was either caught by myself, a field supervisor or the HO. If I caught it, it was corrected.
If the field supervisor caught it, it was correted. If the HO caught it they simply called pointed it out and it was corrected.
I have also rolled out felt over an area where there was bad decking to get the roof dried in to keep it water tight over night. The next day we simply removed the felt and replaced the damaged or rotted roof decking.
I have seen hundreds of hack jobs over the years, but I have never seen anyone try to roof over an area that was as rotted as the area that you posted in your photo.
I have also rolled felt over penetrations as you describe to keep the roof water tight overnight. There is no carbon monoxide produced as you stated and you are not going to die in your sleep.
And I have also had neighbors who were purported "ex roofers" monitor and critique the work as it was being performed. The purported neighbor "ex roofers" where all knows who didn't know there azz from a hole in the ground.
You used the word "nitpicky" to describe yourself. I'm sorry but I call into question your being completely transparent about your role in fueling this fire.
Actually I feel sorry for the next guy who comes in to complete the job with you, your husband and the "ex roofer" neighbors all sitting in the yard in lounge chairs directing the professionals on all the things they are doing wrong.
First off, I am not sure what your occupation is BUT take a look at this...
Gas-Fired Water Heaters:

Gas-fired water heaters have a gas burner located below the tank, a thermostatic switch, a gas valve and a pilot light. The thermostat will open the gas valve when it senses the water temperature at the bottom of the tank has dropped below the present limit. Gas flows to the burner and is ignited by the pilot light, heating the tank from below. In addition, the hot exhaust gases are vented through a hollow core in the center of the tank to help heat the water. The exhaust is then passed into the draft hood and to the vent connector where it is discharged to a chimney flue.
Once the water temperature reaches the set limit of 120 F to 140 F, the gas valve is closed and the burner is turned off.
Note: Fuel-fired systems heat the water by heating the tank. As a result, the tank experiences more wear and tear than with an internal electric heat source. In addition, proper venting of the exhaust is always important to prevent carbon monoxide poisoning. Be sure that the vent/exhaust system is properly installed at a positive angle (upward slope).
found on this website...... http://www.thehome-inspection.com/waterheater.htm.
Next when I say that I am nitpicky, that is just meaning when I know I am getting screwed I get all the evidence I can, and I do not see where you can think that I have fueled this fire when they, the hired workers were destroying my home more than it already was(rotten wood). They were trying to pull a fast one over my head and my neighbor who was a roofer for 4 years actually is still in contracting business as we speak. And you know what I think if more HO watched the work being done on their homes more of this kind of thing would be caught. And it would not be so easy for those kind of people to get over us paying customers. I do not work, I am a stay at home mom and I was not sitting in a lounge chair watching them, I did not start watching them until I saw through the front window that they were carrying shingles onto the rooftop without changing any wood nor did they have any wood to change the places we knew needed to be. So before I get all worked up over you, let me just close with saying know your facts before you speak.

Last edited by photosbyvj; 07-21-2009 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:40 AM   #33
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Why doesn't your neighbor help you out? Why didn't he do it in the first place?
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:49 AM   #34
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Good luck on your meeting today with the contractor.

I hope that he sees the light and offers to resolve the situation in a amenable fashion, but to sort of twist his arm to get to that point, please try to keep the tone civil and work towards a resolution.

At this point, devoid yourselves of any emotional ties you have and look at the oncoming meeting as an objective and unbiased outsider, but at the same time, present your case and issues with all of your documentation to enlighten the person who comes out to attempt to either resolve the situation, or attempts to coerce you into being sheepishly bull-dozed over, which I am confident that you will not allow to happen.

At the beginning of the meeting, mention that you have substantial issues that you will not accept and point out that you have lost any faith in their ability to provide the workmanship as originally contracted for.

Your purpose of this meeting will be to get him to consider, not make a final decision, but just to consider the best way to mitigate further damages to yourself and to their company.

Have a number in mind that is reasonable, but be ready to make amends to change that dollar amount if it means that this matter can be put to rest quickly without further negotiations and aggravation.

Remember, No One is coming out of this situation a winner. The best that both parties can attempt to conjure up through these negotiations, is to have a conclusion that you both can live with.

Know your rights and inform them that you will be willing to take this to the next legal steps required if there is no prompt resolution made, but be willing to back off from that harsher move, if it means that you can be done with the mess in dealing with them.

Leave your own ego's in check and if the other party becomes confrontational, suggest that you all take a 10-15 minute break to cool down to be able to come back to the bargaining table to continue the dialog, even if one party is completely belligerent for a brief period of time. Do not get offended. Take a time out and re-collect the more neutral attitude and still work towards the end goal.

Ed
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:09 AM   #35
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MJW, he didn't do it in the first place because 1 we didn't ask him to and 2 because he works fulltime with a construction company doing remodeling work.

Ed, the owner of this company knows because it came from his mouth "you don't trust us", and i answered him " no , i don't trust none of you because of all the lies that have been tried to be slipped by me, can you blame me for not trusting any of you?" So he knows, how can you allow someone you can't trust to continue working on your job? It just makes no sense at all.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:24 AM   #36
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I understand that.

Now, the entire meeting is all about arriving at a mutually agreeable resolution.

Keep that in mind and don't worry about the finger pointing as far as this stage is concerned.

You and he have the option to turn this into a non-conclusive argument or for it to put the matter behind you with a meeting of the minds to come up with a conclusion to your nightmare.

This meeting is not to lie blame, but to agree to dissolve the contractual relationship, with somewhere near a fair dispersement of the finances being accommodated for, agreed to and followed up on in a timely manner.

Ed
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:43 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roofrite View Post
photosbyjv

I see from the contract you posted it does state that the old felt will be removed. I also spec out in my contracts whether the old felt is to be removed or not. Depending on what part of the country your from stripping the roof down to the bare decking may or may not be S.O.P.
I have had occasions where the HO specified that they wanted the old roofing material stripped down to the bare decking and when the crew began working they weren't removing the old felt. In all cases it was either caught by myself, a field supervisor or the HO. If I caught it, it was corrected.
If the field supervisor caught it, it was correted. If the HO caught it they simply called pointed it out and it was corrected.
I have also rolled out felt over an area where there was bad decking to get the roof dried in to keep it water tight over night. The next day we simply removed the felt and replaced the damaged or rotted roof decking.
I have seen hundreds of hack jobs over the years, but I have never seen anyone try to roof over an area that was as rotted as the area that you posted in your photo.
I have also rolled felt over penetrations as you describe to keep the roof water tight overnight. There is no carbon monoxide produced as you stated and you are not going to die in your sleep.
And I have also had neighbors who were purported "ex roofers" monitor and critique the work as it was being performed. The purported neighbor "ex roofers" where all knows who didn't know there azz from a hole in the ground.
You used the word "nitpicky" to describe yourself. I'm sorry but I call into question your being completely transparent about your role in fueling this fire.
Actually I feel sorry for the next guy who comes in to complete the job with you, your husband and the "ex roofer" neighbors all sitting in the yard in lounge chairs directing the professionals on all the things they are doing wrong.
lmao, feel sorry for your customers with an attitude like yours, Don't worry ma'm the poison won't kill you in just one night of breathing it in, it takes much much longer, maybe two nights? a week??
You sound like you might be the roofer in question, are you?
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:03 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photosbyvj View Post
First off, I am not sure what your occupation is BUT take a look at this...
Gas-Fired Water Heaters:

Gas-fired water heaters have a gas burner located below the tank, a thermostatic switch, a gas valve and a pilot light. The thermostat will open the gas valve when it senses the water temperature at the bottom of the tank has dropped below the present limit. Gas flows to the burner and is ignited by the pilot light, heating the tank from below. In addition, the hot exhaust gases are vented through a hollow core in the center of the tank to help heat the water. The exhaust is then passed into the draft hood and to the vent connector where it is discharged to a chimney flue.
Once the water temperature reaches the set limit of 120 F to 140 F, the gas valve is closed and the burner is turned off.
Note: Fuel-fired systems heat the water by heating the tank. As a result, the tank experiences more wear and tear than with an internal electric heat source. In addition, proper venting of the exhaust is always important to prevent carbon monoxide poisoning. Be sure that the vent/exhaust system is properly installed at a positive angle (upward slope).
found on this website...... http://www.thehome-inspection.com/waterheater.htm.
Next when I say that I am nitpicky, that is just meaning when I know I am getting screwed I get all the evidence I can, and I do not see where you can think that I have fueled this fire when they, the hired workers were destroying my home more than it already was(rotten wood). They were trying to pull a fast one over my head and my neighbor who was a roofer for 4 years actually is still in contracting business as we speak. And you know what I think if more HO watched the work being done on their homes more of this kind of thing would be caught. And it would not be so easy for those kind of people to get over us paying customers. I do not work, I am a stay at home mom and I was not sitting in a lounge chair watching them, I did not start watching them until I saw through the front window that they were carrying shingles onto the rooftop without changing any wood nor did they have any wood to change the places we knew needed to be. So before I get all worked up over you, let me just close with saying know your facts before you speak.
Your right, if people 'home owners' would take the time to inspect the work of the roofers they hire as their installing the materials it would be much easier for us guys who actually take pride in our workmanship to keep a full schedule of work.
It's hard to compete price wise with contractors who skip certain installment procedures simply because they know they won't be around anymore by the time the skip procedures start leaking or burning up the shingles.
I am ok with the 'ex-roofers' watching me and my guys work and will often joke with them about helping us out.
I am ok with nit-picky home owners as well, they normally have better paying jobs because they want everything done right and installed to last.

Make sure to take a moment to relax and be as calm as possible before you meet the roofer, you do not want to end up arguing with this guy, be firm but calm.
Let him tell his side of the story as he see's it than you do the same.
Let him offer a solution and go from there.
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Last edited by Slyfox; 07-22-2009 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:20 AM   #39
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I agree with you Sly, but what is the need for inspection by the homeowner. They should have hired someone they trusted in the first place.

To be honest, I really don't understand this story.........The neighbor has time to come over, fix things, and point out things, but the homeowner didn't hire him for the job.

Aside from hacks cutting corners with your project, others cut corners with cheap labor. Both make the competent contractors look bad initially to a price shopper.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:01 AM   #40
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Just to give you guys a heads up on this.
I'm home from offshore and called the owner who said he was sick and couldn't make it yesterday that he would be here around 9 am central time today.We already have three other estamates on finishing the job and checked with real good references on one guy we liked.
As for what i'm seeing I dont trust the guys first crew for sure and I think i'd be having a divorce if I let him send another crew out here,lol.
I'm a little more calm than my wife when it comes to things like this so I feel good that he and I can come to some understanding.
We found the place they get their materials and have a retail price of everything new that is setting on the ground,with the money already given to the contractor we should have around $1500 left over.I'm willing to work with him on this and not have to go to court or drag his name all in the dirt.

I'll post up after the meeting.Again thanks for all the points of veiws on this being pro or negative for us.This is why we came here to be able to see it from all sides and make sure we weren't over looking things just because we are upset with the contractor.


Talked to the owner he is going back to his office to figure out how much of the $1500 he will offer us back.Think he is also going to write another contract saying we cant file a complant and all.
I'll post back after hearing from him.

Last edited by photosbyvj; 07-22-2009 at 10:04 AM. Reason: talked to contractor
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:15 PM   #41
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Photo, sounds like things are going to turn out ok. Two more things you might want to take into consideration before finalization; 1) obtain a Lien Release, 2) if possible, make sure the contractor has paid for the materials.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:41 PM   #42
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You're getting good advice here. I can't get over the osb being 5" off from the hip rafter.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:54 PM   #43
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Photo, sounds like things are going to turn out ok. Two more things you might want to take into consideration before finalization; 1) obtain a Lien Release, 2) if possible, make sure the contractor has paid for the materials.

Thanks for your help rwa and all who have gave us pointers on this matter.
I'd like to say that:
salesman F
inatallers F
owner A-

After talking to the owner with a level head we came up with them giving us a check minus the New materials we have and the labor for taking off the old shingles.We also signed a paper stating the end of the contract.

We have four estimates now and the one we like the most we called four references on him and all said he was a stand up guy and did great work.He did say his crew was a mexican crew but we are more than welcome with the neighbor to pull up some lawn chairs drink beer and watch them all we want,lol.

Only thing wrong is he said he couldn't start till next week being his work schedule,which is good in away that he has this much work that other people are using him (the other peoplesaid they could start in the morning and have been calling back asking if we are ready yet,lol)

Thanks again for all the help here on the forum and will be checking the forum out before our next project (drywall).
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:25 PM   #44
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sorry about the trouble you've had but for anyone else reading... NEVER PAY A DIME UP FRONT AND GET IT IN WRITING! I've always told anyone who wanted cash upfront to take a hike. If they don't have a line of credit somewhere they're worthless to begin with. A contract is good as gold for them and you. Once they get your money... that's it.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:28 PM   #45
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That is a great outcome. Daddy use to say, "Its not what you did, its what you do next." Sounds like the owner understands that well. Hopefully you will not have to endure any of these type problems when you do your drywall project. If you do, let us know and we will try to help.

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