Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Roofing/Siding

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2007, 06:35 AM   #31
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Share |
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


adawg,

Go back and check out post # 21 of this thread and you will see a 9 + year old Shingle Vent II Ridge Vent installation.

amazer.

The ONLY thing that looks out of place on the ridge vent installation from your photos I saw at the other site, is that the roofer did not run the vent 100 % of the length of the ridge.

Ed

Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007, 04:00 PM   #32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: southern New Hampshire
Posts: 19
Send a message via AIM to amazer
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Hey thanks for all your comments, everyone. We decided to use the Snow Country after all and just make sure that the product is used across the entire ridge line. I think the main aesthetic problem comes about when you have this bulging ridge vent that stops short of the end. I'll ask my roofer to just extend the vent to the chimney, which will eliminate the awkwardness in that one area they've done so far..

Really appreciated Ed's comments about DCI's SmartVent product. My roofer is impressed with it, and it does enable a very clean-looking installation. So far we've got it installed on one side of the house.

We had some surprises taking off the old shingles-- on about half the roof, the house had no felt under the shingles. They were just nailed onto the plywood directly. They still delivered 21 years of service,.. but I'm glad to be replacing them now, espeically since these was one wet area of roof under the shiingles.

By the way, my roofer suggested that we not bother to replace the galvinized drip edges along the eves. They seem to be in good physical condition, but a bit discolored after 20 years. He says that, largely due to acid rain and galvanized steel's properties, that the drip edges will get identically discolored in a year or so anyway, so there's no real point to replacing them. What's your opinion?
Attached Images
  

Last edited by amazer; 10-02-2007 at 04:49 PM.
amazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007, 07:04 PM   #33
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by amazer View Post

By the way, my roofer suggested that we not bother to replace the galvinized drip edges along the eves. They seem to be in good physical condition, but a bit discolored after 20 years. He says that, largely due to acid rain and galvanized steel's properties, that the drip edges will get identically discolored in a year or so anyway, so there's no real point to replacing them. What's your opinion?
This is a little bit late to be asking that question, isn't it?

The roof is already done and it would potentially cause more damage than good by replacing it now. The only time that I leave the existing gutter apron drip edge metal in place, is if the gutter hangers are screwed or nailed through the old metal and if we are not replacing or re-setting the existing gutters. If it is not visible from the ground as if it were tucked into the existing gutter troughs, the color fade would not be important.

I always use color coordinated aluminum pre-bent gutter apron drip edge flashings when I quote a new roof.

The lack of including the drip edge metals, both the gutter apron and the gable edge drip edge flashings is were alot of contractors cut corners and attempt to keep their price quote lower than others. Sometimes they state that the installation of the gable edge drip edge metals looks unsightly, but that is due to a lack of experience in the proper installation of these very thin, but functional and decorative sections of drip edge flashing materials.

I prefer to do it the Right Way, not the Cheapest Way.

Ed

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 10-02-2007 at 07:51 PM.
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007, 09:04 PM   #34
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: southern New Hampshire
Posts: 19
Send a message via AIM to amazer
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


I had asked this question about replacing old drip edge because the majority of the house hasn't been shingled yet. Tomorrow they should finish removing the shingles on the main part of the house, then they install the SmartVent, then apply Ice Shield, etc. So far, they've completed only the garage and family room areas.

Not really knowing anything about roofing, I hadn't noticed that we didn't have any gable drip edges, until my roofer pointed that out and told me he was including installing them in his bid. I have to admit the gable edging perks up the appearance, and the overall job is proceeding slowly and methodically.

I'm happy to say that they are doing careful work and have been responsive to my concerns. For example, when I asked him to check out the DCI website about Smart Vent, he did so, and got right back to me saying that it seemed like a cool approach to ventilating and that he wanted to try it on our house. He charged me only $225 to upgrade from installing standard soffit vents (in original bid) to using SmartVent for a total of 75 running feet. Bottom line is that I reeally don't think he's out to cut corners (but I appreciate your frankness) and feel that he's sincerely trying to do a quality job.

I'm sure that if I pushed the issue, he'd be willing to replace the total of 60 feet or so of old drip edge that's still readily accessible-- what would that cost... $50 or $60? But I don't want to be petty.

I guess the bottom line is, does it matter? We have galvanized steel edging. Or would new drip edge look like old drip edge in a year or so? I have to admit the old edge doesn't look like its rusting or corroded, just a bit weather spotted.

We don't have gutters on our house, so it would be simple enough to remove the gutter apron or drip edge at the bottom of the roof.

Last edited by amazer; 10-03-2007 at 06:53 AM.
amazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007, 09:26 PM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


I was not directing my lack of installing drip edge material comment at your roofing contractor.

He seems like a stand up guy and represents the profession well from what you have stated.

My comment was one of my many pet peeves about the entire roofing industry. Cut out a few dollars of necessary product here and a few more dollars here, and oh by the way...you don't really believe that you need any more than 3-6 mushroom style vents...do you???????

Too many contractors are more concerned on how to do the cheapest job irregardless of the eventual outcome just so they can obtain another job on the schedule.

Most homeowners will not realize how much they got short changed until years down the road, when they need to have their 12-15 year old roof replaced prematurely. Then they will typically feel that the shingle product did not live up to its stated warranty. Usually, it was due to all of the corners being cut during the initial installation and the specifications which were under the requirements.

Tell your roofer that there is alot more to be learned if he so desirees, by registering at the parent site, contractortalk.com where he can even further expand his business and professional knowledge.

Since he was willing to look up the Smart Vent from DCI Products, he seems like the type of contractor we need more of.

Once again:

ContractorTalk.com

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 07:02 AM   #36
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: southern New Hampshire
Posts: 19
Send a message via AIM to amazer
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


You make some good points, Ed. Much appreciated-- in fact, Google put me on ContractorTalk.com early in my roofing research, and that was quite informative, especially since the content was from the contractor's point of view.

I can see that you contractors have your work cut out for you, since there's obviously quite a bit more to roofing than meets the eye. You have to deal with the suspicions and thriftiness of skeptical homeowners who can't quite believe that they need to revamp their ventilation systems. And you have to balance coming in with a reasonable or low bid with the real-life demands of what doing a quality job entails.

I wonder, do roofing contractors ever offer a good-better-best range of quotes to a particular job? Such as:

- 30 year shingles, no ventilation added
-30 year shingles with enlarged gable vents
-30 year shingles with soffit and ridgevents installed
-50 year shingles with SmartVent and ridge vent

Last edited by amazer; 10-03-2007 at 07:04 AM.
amazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 10:12 AM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


I can tell you how I quote my project.

It is with 3 levels of quality shingles and all 3 options include the necessary upgraded ventlation, gutter apron drip edge metal, gable edge overhanging drip edge metal, either 30 # felt paper or synthetic felt paper, Grace Ice and Water Shield along all gutter eave edges and in all valleys and around every protrusion of slope change and along all intersecting walls and the Shingle Vent II Ridge Vent. I either line item a cost for including the Smart Vent for Fresh Air Intake Ventilation or include it as part of the entire full package.

I have a collection of over 135 other companies roofing proposals, if you want to call them that, and most are a one page form, they usually offer 2 or 3 shingle price options and usually they are very non-descriptive about which actual products are to be installed. The terms are vewry vague and generic, which can lead to bait and switch or completely avoiding doing what the Home Owner had thought was to be installed because of the implication the Home Owner had from reading the one page.

My proposal is usually 6-8 pages long and very descriptive about the causes for the existing problems and the proper recommended solutions to the existing problems.

Another strong point, most contractors say "plywood" in ther bid, but that term is very generic and could be OSB board instead of exterior grade CDX plywood sheathing.

Once the contract is signed and the job is started, they will just tell the Home Owner it s just as good. Well, it is too late to do anything about it then, isn't it?

None of my written specifications offer anything less than a properly done roofing system, but, if a Home Owner chooses to reduce the specifications, they can view my pricing sheet to see if it worth deleting some usefull, already included product from their scope of work.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 10:23 AM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Amazer,

I just did a search for the same user name over at contractortalk.com and could not find any of your previous posts.

Did you use a different user name?

Or, possibly you got deleted/banned for being a Home Owner on the contractor board?

Which threads did you get involved in, so I could see where you started your inquiries from?

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 10:43 AM   #39
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: southern New Hampshire
Posts: 19
Send a message via AIM to amazer
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Ed,

I browsed ContractorTalk, but didn't register, since I'm not a contractor. Didn't want to abuse the forum with my chatter! Read a number of your posts there... at the time I was mostly interested in ventilation, and learned stuff about having to close off gable vents if you install a soffit-ridge vent system. Stuff like that. Also went to (roofing dot com), which is a forum on the topic with its own opinionated and mostly knowledgeable community.

Gee, aren't you envious of all the wiggle room the other guys have in their contracts, while you're actually obliged to do a top-notch job? I respect the way you do business, and you're certainly doing your prospective customers a service by educating them. Hopefully that good karma is coming back to you in closed contracts.

I had a certfied GAF contractor bid on our job and he was very professional, wrote up a detailed contract, took some photos of problem areas on the roof and enclosed a CD of them with his proposal. I liked the guy and his approach, but he was 60% higher than the other bid I got. (Actually I had a third bid also, but for brevity's sake I'm simplyfying).

The outfit I went with submitted a written bid that was not very detailed or specific, though we discussed the approach and materials. I now realize a bit more explicitly how this could lead to problems, but so far (halfway into the job), I've been pleased with the quality of work. I'm saving almost $6K by using this company, which is a family business in that his son-in-law, daughter and a friend are doing the work. They have WC and general liability insurance, but probably not all the coverage that bigger companies have.

I know it must be frustrating to pitch experience, a concern for quality and thoroughness, a record of accomplishment, etc., and then lose business to less "professional" companies that underbid you (I'm assuming you are a bit more expensive than the average roofing company). But as a homeowner with the usual financial concerns, I have to try and find good deals and then make calculated risks (i.e., I look for good deals on car tires, but wouldn't buy a Brand X).

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 10-03-2007 at 11:50 AM. Reason: No live links to competing sites allowed.
amazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 11:48 AM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by amazer View Post
Ed,

I'm saving almost $6K by using this company, which is a family business in that his son-in-law, daughter and a friend are doing the work.

They have WC and general liability insurance, but probably not all the coverage that bigger companies have.

I would be willing to bet you with over 100 to 1 odds that one of 2 things exist with their Workmans Compensation policy!!! No, make that 1,000 to 1 odds! I have never been wrong on this suspicion before. You know what? Even when it has been pointed out to homeowners that a "Carpentry" policy for Workers Compensation does not cover "Roofing" work, if that is their primary function of the contract, most Home Owners are still too ignorant to give a dang.

First, they declare themselves as independant workers versus payroll employees and are not officially "Covered" under the Worker Compensation Policy. (Ask to see an actual paycheck with withholding taxes.)

Second, they are calling themselve a "Remodeling" company or some other type of SIC, (Standard Industrial Code), for the purposes of obtaining a workers compensation policy with substantially lower rates. My policy cost 39 points, which is the same as saying, for every $ 100.00 of payroll, I contribute $ 39.00. i.e. $ 100,00.00 payroll for the year = $ 39,000.00 to workers compensation insurance company. (Contact the insurance company for verification that the work they are performing is covered under the policy.)

Oh! I said 2 things. There is also a 3rd potential. They all claim to be "Partners" in the business or at least the family members do. Then they are allowed to "Exempt" themselves from coverage. That means that there is NO INSURANCE on them as workers on your home if any accident were to occurr.

Now, if any of these 3 scenarios are true, how do you feel about how they put your entire lifes most valuable asset at risk?

With the copy of workers compensation insurance policy that they gave you....Errrr, you did request a copy of the policy, didn't you?

Call up the insurance carrier and find out if their are any exemptions or limitations or exclusions on the policy.

I could knock off $ 1,000.00 to $ 2,000.00 per bid if I had unsuspecting homeowners who didn't mind me having a fake and useless workers compensation policy.

I insist on giving every Home Owner a copy of the policy and it has the insurance companies phone number right on it for them to contact directly.

Check up on this and see if they put your assets at risk.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 12:09 PM   #41
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: southern New Hampshire
Posts: 19
Send a message via AIM to amazer
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Good points, Ed. I saw a liability policy but no workers comp policy. Now I know better, but since they're halfway into the job... and, here in NH, even family members who work for an employer are required to carry WC.

By the way, what's your take on this expert's views about not plugging gable vents, even if you install a soffit and ridge vent system? Check out this page: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...elt-weight.htm

Last edited by amazer; 10-03-2007 at 12:44 PM.
amazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 01:12 PM   #42
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,384
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Sometimes Stan has some very good advice and sometimes his rational just absolutely makes my eyes bug out.

He believes in Powered attic ventilation instead of ridge ventilation. He states that most of the time ridge ventilation is not necessary. He states that it is installed incorrectly.

Some of that, he is right, but just because the installer does not do his job application correctly does not mean that the product is not a better choice.

PAV's actually cost more money to operate and suck the conditioned air out of the interior environment. I will find the research article which backs thias up and post it later on.

The best thing I can say about Stan, is that he is very diligent at providing a vast amount of answers and at least most of the time his answers are at least heading in the right direction.

I was on that site about 2 days ago though, and had previously considered opting in as an alternative "Ask The Expert" provider, but i woulf find that I would wind up being in disagreement way too often and possibly the opposing views might take away from the nature of that sites intended purpose. The questions I was looking at the other night and the answers provided, were so far off base that i had to exit before my blood pressure curdled.

Ed
Ed the Roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 01:13 PM   #43
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Newtown, Ct
Posts: 415
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Amazer, I just want to let you know that GAF states that in order for the snow country ridge vent to function correctly the gable end vents must be closed off.

http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20432.pdf
Docfletcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 01:41 PM   #44
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: southern New Hampshire
Posts: 19
Send a message via AIM to amazer
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Thanks Doc and Ed, as always, for enlightening insights. I'll continue with our plan to plug the gables, considering most of the experts hold this to be the best approach.

By the way-- Doc, I notice you hail from Newtown. Some years ago in the late '80s I worked with Bob Fulton III who was a filmaker and aviator who lived in Newtown. We edited several film projects at his family's compound (for lack of a better word) in Newtown, so I spent many a day there.

It's a lovely town, and Bob's place was particularly special. The family had a older house on a number of ridgetop acres, including several outbuildings. They had a grass airstrip from which Bob flew an old Cessna 180 taildragger, and his Dad, then in his late 80's flew an even older Stinson with a radial engine. Bob made a career for himself shooting footage from a wing-mounted 16mm camera. He flew extensively over Alaska, the entire continental US and central America. He had just about finished shooting a one year project for the BBC over South America--from Patagonia to the Amazon-- when he died a few years ago flying back to Conn. from Chicago. There was extensive thunderrstorm activity and I guess lightening hit his plane... very sad in all respects, and ironic given the care and thoughtfulness with which he approached piloting.

His dad, by the way, Robert Fulton II, was known for inventing the "Airphibian", a small airplane whose wings would unclip from the cabin, so you could drive away after you landed somewhere. Check it out at http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero...aft/fulton.htm

It was featured on the cover of LIFE back in the late '40s or early 50s, but they never could get it fully certified by the CAA for a reasonable cost.

Mr. Fulton also was known for inventing a contraption for scooping soldiers off the ground by an airplane in mid-flight. I think it was called the AirHook, and was used to rescue those soldiers in the aborted rescue mission in Iran when Carter was president. I saw him and several workers making these rigs in one of their buildings-- the military stills buys them apparently.

These were also featured in the last scene in the movie "Thunderball", when Bond and the woman are floating on a raft in the Medditeranean and about to party when the plane flies over and grabs them. The contraption uses a hook that extends on a rod from the bottom of the plane to grap a bar rigged above the person-- there's some sort of spring involved that prevents one's shoulders from being ripped off the rest of the body, which would sort of negate the whole purpose of the rescue.

Anyways, you wouldn't have known or heard of the Fultons, by any chance?

Sorry if I got a bit off-topic here!

Last edited by amazer; 10-03-2007 at 02:12 PM.
amazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 05:55 PM   #45
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Newtown, Ct
Posts: 415
Default

Cobra Ridge Vent Or Air Vent Shinglevent ll ?


Yep, the road where the airstrip is I believe called Orchard Hill. I have not been there in years. The first time the wife and I drove by there we were flabergasted to see a plane in front of the house. As well as a windmill and those wonderfully colored cone shaped wind catchers. kinda made me think of "Sky King".

Docfletcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Useless Ridge Vent? itwerx2 Roofing/Siding 22 10-22-2007 09:57 PM
Another Ridge Vent, Gable vent and soffit question (??) davco Roofing/Siding 2 04-30-2007 11:14 PM
Ridge vent question dpreznik Roofing/Siding 7 04-13-2007 03:03 PM
Ridge vent installation cost Douche Roofing/Siding 1 07-26-2006 04:59 AM
Ridge Vent - Low-pitched roof? brianp Roofing/Siding 2 05-08-2006 08:32 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.