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Old 08-22-2007, 12:09 AM   #16
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CertainTeed Landmark 50 asphalt shingles


I think I like TRG. It has a nice ring. That is, I think it comes off nice. Works for me.

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Old 08-22-2007, 12:15 AM   #17
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TRG, I hope you are not mad at me!
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Old 08-22-2007, 12:21 AM   #18
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In the end,There shall be only one! (you`re a woman?)
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:16 AM   #19
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TRG, what clan R U? No, I'm a man. At least last time I looked! What on God's green earth made you think I was a woman?
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:53 AM   #20
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I referred to the homeowner as "she",you used it as a response to the real god above,usually woman do that,that`s all-no biggie,roofers tend to be thick skinned
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:30 AM   #21
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:08 PM   #22
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Thank you, all of you for your input. I took the pictures separately from the folder I had and each individually exceeds the maximum kb range. I will send pictures to Doc and TRG. I would appreciate your advise on what shingle to purchase and which to avoid next time. I enjoy your humor. I too have a full time life and job too and am grateful that you are willing to take your time to help me. My roofer is licensed, insured, member of BBB. I did my research before I chose which roofer to use, but I didn't research products, just told him I wanted maximum life, high wind resistant and mold inhibitors (since I live in a highly wooded area). I will speak to an attorney depending upon CertainTeed's response to my certified mail and warranty claim. My warranty does not require that CertainTeed products are used in replacement, so now after all this gravel loss, I'm searching for a better product.



By way of more thorough step by step review, this brings the shorter version up to date below.


On May 9, 2005 (2 yrs ago), contractors completed replacement of all roofing materials which included your 50 year warranty algae resistant Landmark shingles. In addition to installation of roofing materials, all gutters were removed, cleaned, and reinstalled following the completion of shingle placement. In the weeks that followed, shingle grit/gravel began to appear on the ground at each downspout. I considered the possibility that this might be due to the contractors walking on the roof during installation followed by seasonal rain.

Every fall all gutters are cleaned of leaf debris for the upcoming winter. In September, 2005 (4 months following installation), I noted a significant amount of shingle grit/gravel remaining in the gutters, which had not washed out through the downspouts.

In the fall of 2006, all gutters were once again cleared and rinsed. Shingle grit/gravel was present in the gutters again. No one had been on my roof between the fall gutter cleaning of 2005 and fall of 2006, so the additional loss of shingle gravel was not due to any contractors.

This summer (2007), I arranged for painting contractors to prep and paint my home. I paid my roofing contractor to remove all gutters (which were placed on the ground away from the house), so that the painting contractors could prep and paint all wood surfaces, even surfaces which were not readily visible (a very thorough job), as the wood surfaces behind the gutters.

At various times, the painting job was delayed, due to rain or high humidity. Since the gutters were not lying at a proper drain pitch, they filled with water, which if left filled, would perhaps contaminate and become a short term breeding ground for mold/algae and mosquitoes. I turned all of the gutters over to drain the water out until the gutters could be reinstalled. As I did so, more shingle grit/gravel poured out onto the ground from each gutter.


Thanks guys. Perhaps doc or TRG can upload some of these or comment on the pics sent to them.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:24 PM   #23
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Here are a few more attempts to attach pics. Thank you.
Picture with measuring tape is a picture of the ground where a gutter was turned over to avoid moisture build up. You can see that there is significant shingle gravel even within the distance of 1 foot.

This gutter gravel build up occurred in less than one year, as the gutters were cleaned around the end of October 2006 (as it is best to wait until all leaves have fallen). The gutters were removed for painting contractors around April of 2007. The time that this gutter gravel collected would be about six to eight (6-8) months.

Picture of bowl is a picture of the gutter gravel from the same portion of gutter that did not fall onto the ground when I turned it over, but remained adhered to the interior gutter surface. I removed it manually by rubbing it with a dry paper towel, gave it a light rinse in the bowl which left behind the heaviest gravel. The picture shows gutter gravel free of any other debris. This small portion completely covered the bottom of a flat bottom cereal bowl, and the gravel is about 1/8 inch deep. I shall save this in a labeled/dated package.

Shingle closeup shows the warping that I mentioned. In addition to shingle gravel loss, it would appear that in several places the shingles are beginning to warp. You can see by the level line created by the bottom of the picture, that the curve of the shingles shows warping. The surface under the shingle is flat, and there is nothing under the shingles to create this curve. This picture is not the only area where this warping is occurring. It is random across the roof surface. Since warping is random on my detached (unheated) garage, I donít believe that the problem is improper ventiliation.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:37 PM   #24
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Unfortunately, I couldn't see the pictures. You should have seen granules after install. Manufacturers actually add what they call free riders or loose granules in the package. These are the granules that didn't get embedded into the shingle. That is why you will see granules for the first couple of years. You would have to show close ups of the shingles. When you send a couple of shingles in for your warranty claim, there needs to be evidence of a problem. Where granules are missing from these shingles and you can see the base. Those pictures you sent with the gable vent and ridge vents may give them an out for warranty purposes. You shouldn't have both of those. The gable vent should have been sealed off when the ridge vent was installed. You should really have a professional look at the roof. I don't really see granules in gutters as a valid warranty claim without seeing deteriorating shingles.
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:12 PM   #25
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another try for pics. The picture with the measuring tape of gravel on ground from overturned gutter was too big a kb file and would not load.

The gable vents were installed in the spring of this year, just before the painters started in March, after my roofer felt that the new ridge vents of 2005 were not enough (replacing the old ridge vent prior to new roof installation). The eaves vents are and were clean. Now there is as much venting as possible. I never experienced heat loss in the attic. The snow always stayed on my roof, except at the highest peak of ridge vent (which it never sealed off-indicating venting). Here in Wisconsin, they have always said that an even coverage of snow across the roof is a sign of excellent insulation and to always watch for this when considering purchasing a home. Melting snow from the roof when temperatures are cold, is an indication of escaping heat. I've never had trouble with my attic before. You might say I've gone overboard to avoid troubles. The eaves vents were there all along with some sort of stacks inside the attic to prevent clogging and promote air flow. Everything else was a complete tear off and replacement (I can't see the point of putting new things over old surfaces just to save a little money in materials and labor, even though the codes allow more than one layer of shingles). Sent all pictures to TSG and doc. Hopefully one of them will help me with the photos that are too many kb. Even though my roofing contractor is the one who did all this work, is licensed, insured and a member of the BBB, as you indicate that I should have a professional look at this, then I question the installers ability and knowledge, especially since he is the one who installed the gable vents, which you say my be a warranty 'out'. The gravel in the pictures were taken after removal of the gutters to allow the painters access to the wood under the gutters and downspouts (thorough, not a cover of only what can be seen). The gravel loss has been ongoing since the beginning. A friend of the family just settled with CertainTeed on his Horizon shingles. I'm beginning to think that CertainTeed is the same quality regardless of the name they call each one. I understand that CertainTeed was sued right and left over Horizon. It's probably too soon to tell if Landmark falls into the same catagory. The roofer that sneered, scoffed, and rolled his eyes won't use CertainTeed anymore, but he is also the one that recommended IKO and I noticed a thumbs down on that one in the responses. Thanks for your continued help. Wendy
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:07 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Honold View Post
another try for pics. The picture with the measuring tape of gravel on ground from overturned gutter was too big a kb file and would not load.

The gable vents were installed in the spring of this year, just before the painters started in March, after my roofer felt that the new ridge vents of 2005 were not enough (replacing the old ridge vent prior to new roof installation). The eaves vents are and were clean. Now there is as much venting as possible. I never experienced heat loss in the attic. The snow always stayed on my roof, except at the highest peak of ridge vent (which it never sealed off-indicating venting). Here in Wisconsin, they have always said that an even coverage of snow across the roof is a sign of excellent insulation and to always watch for this when considering purchasing a home. Melting snow from the roof when temperatures are cold, is an indication of escaping heat. I've never had trouble with my attic before. You might say I've gone overboard to avoid troubles. The eaves vents were there all along with some sort of stacks inside the attic to prevent clogging and promote air flow. Everything else was a complete tear off and replacement (I can't see the point of putting new things over old surfaces just to save a little money in materials and labor, even though the codes allow more than one layer of shingles). Sent all pictures to TSG and doc. Hopefully one of them will help me with the photos that are too many kb. Even though my roofing contractor is the one who did all this work, is licensed, insured and a member of the BBB, as you indicate that I should have a professional look at this, then I question the installers ability and knowledge, especially since he is the one who installed the gable vents, which you say my be a warranty 'out'. The gravel in the pictures were taken after removal of the gutters to allow the painters access to the wood under the gutters and downspouts (thorough, not a cover of only what can be seen). The gravel loss has been ongoing since the beginning. A friend of the family just settled with CertainTeed on his Horizon shingles. I'm beginning to think that CertainTeed is the same quality regardless of the name they call each one. I understand that CertainTeed was sued right and left over Horizon. It's probably too soon to tell if Landmark falls into the same catagory. The roofer that sneered, scoffed, and rolled his eyes won't use CertainTeed anymore, but he is also the one that recommended IKO and I noticed a thumbs down on that one in the responses. Thanks for your continued help. Wendy
That could be a nail working its way back out causing that warp. They may have not hit the sheathing on that nail. As for the granules, that isn't a lot in my opinion. Every bundle I open, I can pull out a tiny handful of granules. Do a search on google about gable and ridge vents. The soffit vents at the eves are supposed to be your intake air. Your ridge vent allows for the attic air to be exhausted (outtake). When your roofer added the gable vent, it could cause a short circuit of air flow. Air would no longer be drawn from the eaves. Instead it will go through the gable and out the ridge vent.
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:53 PM   #27
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I know the pictures don't seem like a lot of granule loss over only 1 foot of gutter on the ground and in the bowl. This is all that I saved and the first pictures I've taken (2 years from installation). The loss has been consistent from the very beginning evenly distributed along each gutter and downspout, even the garage which is detached and unheated has granule loss. I'll go to google and read on ridge and gable vents. I'm not certain why my roofer would do something to short circuit the flow, unless he's not as knowledgeable as he seems with so many years of experience. Over the past 2 years is the first work I've done with this and he is the only one who has done any roofing or venting work for me. Thanks for your continued help and suggestions.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:12 PM   #28
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I have a link to a very good piece of literature which explains the aging process of asphalt/fiberglass shingles, whether from natural and normal causes or from premature degradation of the product.

A certain amount of excessive granule loss is to be expected. The primary deciding factor about whether or not the amount is excessive would be if the actual shingles are left with bare spots from a lack of granule attachment.

Do you see any bare asphalt exposed on the shingles?

Does the granule surfacing seem consistent throughout the entire roof? Or, is there a small section where a patterned look seems to have the granules missing?

If so, there might have been one or two bad bundles in the entire batch. The word of the roofing contractor stating that for sure he installed enough ventilation should be looked at with a sharp eye on the actual requirements of necessary ventilation to properly balance your attic air space. You need proper balanced intake and exhaust ventilation and the only way to determine the correct amount is to know the actual attic square footage and the total NFVA of Fresh Air Intake and Attic Exhaust being provided.

More than 90 % of all roofs done by "So Called Professional Roofing Contractors" are not done to the manufacturers specifications. Read my roofing blog for more accurate and detailed information about what the manufacturers of the shingles and of the ventilation products have to say about this failure to install roofing the Right Way.

http://rightwayroofing.wordpress.com/

Here is the link I promised you with the information about the aging process. It is called "The Life Cycle Of Your Roof";

http://www.certainteed.com/NR/rdonly...ecycleRoof.pdf

Also, I would have posted sooner, but I worked until 9:30 p.m. last night and had to start at 6:00 a.m. to drive my dump truck to the next job getting started.

It may seem as if we just sit by our computers to answer questions all day long, but usually we are out trying to keep ourselves and our employees employed, which has been a tad bit more difficult in this years economy.

Ed
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:37 PM   #29
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Well I most certainly will make it a point to remember that the guys are out there doing their thing day by day. Not having time to sit around the board.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:15 PM   #30
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I am having a roof put on tomorrow. So I was reading all about it at the GAF
website. I watched all the how to videos explaining GAF installations. The one that struck a cord with regard to Wendy's situation applies to all brands of shingle. It explained never to lay down shingle on a wet or damp deck. That such a practice could cause buckling & blistering of the roof shingles. I'm not saying her deck was wet, only that if it was it may be piece of the problem.

http://www.gaf.com/General/GafMain.asp?Silo=CONT&WS=GAF Only viewable with internet exploror. The specific video is the one for weatherwatch & stormgaurd.

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Last edited by Docfletcher; 08-22-2007 at 09:17 PM.
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