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-   -   can't figure out patch job (http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/cant-figure-out-patch-job-137015/)

stephenbishop 03-14-2012 10:50 AM

can't figure out patch job
 
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We removed an old prefabbed fireplace from our home some time ago, and simply covered the resulting hole in the roof with a tarp. while I took care of a few other jobs. Finally got around to the patch job today, and even though I had no trouble fitting a piece of ply to the hole, I cannot for the life of me figure out how I'm supposed to weave the shingles into place, especially under the rows above. I have a contractor friend who's done some roofing, and he told me to clear enough space around the hole so that I can lay the felt comfortably under/over the edges of the old material, and that I'd have to selectively 'weave' the new shingles into the old roofing, starting from the bottom up. Just to get an idea of what I had to do I played around with the new shingles, and kept running into one problem - when I tried sliding a sheet of three tab underneath the last row of intact shingles above the patch area, I couldn't get it to slide right in because of the nails. Friend says I have to remove these nails first, but when I try it's almost impossible to accomplish it without damaging the shingles the nails are holding down, so it becomes sort of self-defeating.

I've never done this before obviously, but it almost seems as if it would be easier shingling a roof from scratch, as you start from the bottom and work your way up. This business of trying to weave new shingles into old is damn confusing if you've never done it before.

Can anyone give me some pointers on how to approach this? I thought this was going to be fairly straightforward, yet now I'm practically on the point of pulling out the phone book to try and find a roofing guy to do the job for me.

Thanks.

MJW 03-14-2012 11:14 AM

Patching that would be just another problem and almost guaranteed to leak. Get the whole roof done or at least that slope.

OldNBroken 03-14-2012 11:14 AM

You need a good flat bar to prep it. For starters you have to remove all the half tabs on the left and right to tie in properly. Yours is a carpenters pattern so it's pretty straightforward.

At the top you have to use the flatbar to finesse under the existing shingles and remove all the nails holding the first course above down. If your shingles are brittle you are going to break some and it could be so brittle you cannot remove them successfully. If you break one, remove and replace it also.

You cannot lift the existing shingles up too far or they will always break. It takes practice.

Once you have all the nails out and the sides cut, start from the bottom and install the new shingles tying into one side neatly and roofing across to the other. Trim the new shingle to fit snugly next to the shingle on the other end if necessary. If the shingles are the same size then trimming shouldn't be necessary.

Once you get your last course installed under the top run, make sure you re-nail that top course that you removed the nails from initially.

You may need to tab some mastic under the old shingles to help them stay down again.

Good Luck

joecaption 03-14-2012 11:20 AM

This may help.
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/r...ak/smhole.html

If the old shingles are just falling apart and your using the flat bar correctly it may be time for a whole new roof.

DO not try and reuse any of the old shingles, use all new for the repair.

stephenbishop 03-14-2012 11:24 AM

@OldNBroken. Thanks for all that - no wonder I was having such trouble. It's nowhere near as straighforward as I thought.

When we bought the house a couple of years ago there were all sorts of mold issues with the place resulting from leaks here and there in the roof. We had someone come and inspect the roof, and he felt that the roof overall was fine and that it just needed a little patching here and there where leaf debris had been allowed to build up and sit. No leaks since thankfully, and I figured I could do the same on this trouble spot, which was also the cause of leaks due to poor installation.

@Joecaption. Use the old shingles - that I'd like to see. I've torn them into bits as I've taken them off the area in question. I carted up four packets of new shingles via the ladder to use on the area - that was fun! Now I know why they use the conveyer system!

Thanks for that link as well - it certainly gave some useful pointers. I may be able to do it after all - I just have to head off to HD and buy a flat bar for the nail removal. I was simply trying to use my hammer, which explains how the damage was being done.

Thanks again

OldNBroken 03-14-2012 11:35 AM

You carted 4 bundles up the ladder....you gonna have to cart about three back down from the size of that patch. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

The blue flatbar at Home Depot works great

stephenbishop 03-14-2012 11:52 AM

Okay, I just went by what one of my pals at HD told me. said 2 - 3 would be enough for an area 4' x 5'. but to take the extra packet just in case.

Cart them back down - maybe I'll just make the patch area bigger! Carrying those packets up, slung over one shoulder, was hefty enough work. Trying to ease myself back onto a ladder with that unwieldy weight would be another matter. I wonder what kind of condition I could return the extra packets to HD in if I throw them off the roof? Hmmmm.

OldNBroken 03-14-2012 12:08 PM

Make sure they land flat and your odds are pretty good

3 bundles covers 100 sf. Your area looks to be 30-40sf

BigJim 10-03-2012 07:57 AM

CarlJ asked how to lift shingles that were stuck down by the tar.

Use the flat bar as described, but pry very gently as the shingle will break if it is too cold or old, also you will punch a hole in the shingle if the shingle is too hot, just use very steady gently pressure and watch how the shingle reacts.

joecaption 10-03-2012 08:21 AM

And where is the layer of tar paper before the shingles go down?

joecaption 10-03-2012 08:26 AM

And where is the layer of tar paper before the shingles go down?
The flat bar is not simply used to pry the shingles up your going to have to lay it flat and work it back and forth hard to gradualy get the tabs to left up.
Your also going to have to remove any of the broken or partial shingles around the outside of the whole area so your only replacing whole shingles.
Since you new to this I would suggest once the tar papers layed you snap chaulk line so from one side to the other the shingles will line up.

Roofmaster417 10-03-2012 09:14 AM

I have used a 6" putty knife (Metal) to separate those difficult shingles.Make sure to be gentle with it otherwise you will cut into the shingle and the top of the shingle below the one your trying to remove.

Hopefully that plywood patch you installed is set firmly on the rafters only.Don't install the plywood partially on the rafter with edges floating.If so pull it and make your cut so the edges of the plywood are fastened square on the rafter.


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