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Old 09-21-2011, 04:59 PM   #31
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Can new roof be fixed?


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Got it.

Still trying to fathom how someone could do 45 square on a 12/12 pitch for $12K though. That's like 50/50 split for labor and material with no overhead or profit.

Last time we did that many square on a 7/12 pitch, the price was closer to $18K and that was a good price.

BTW, I agree with the others. It needs to be completely re-done. There is no way some of that work should be acceptable to anyone. Terrible Contracting and even worse work.
Wouldn't even touch that job at that price.

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Old 09-21-2011, 07:09 PM   #32
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Can new roof be fixed?


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Wouldn't even touch that job at that price.


Agreed.,but the problem lies with the fact that for everyone of us that won't touch it.,you have 50 that will.,and the funny thing about it is.,.,add another 25 of the ones who say they won't but actually will.,

But this workmanship and ethics issue has been going on since before little house on the prarie.So it is what it is.,

These post's will not go away anytime soon but it does give quality roofers job security.,
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:33 PM   #33
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Can new roof be fixed?


Really guys?

40 sq at 18k? 6k materials tops. $500 dumpster. 4k labor tops with all taxes included.

$7500 OH+P. 3-4 days.

www.paragonexteriors.com
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:58 PM   #34
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Can new roof be fixed?


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Really guys?

40 sq at 18k? 6k materials tops. $500 dumpster. 4k labor tops with all taxes included.

$7500 OH+P. 3-4 days.

www.paragonexteriors.com
He says 45 square, so it could possibly be close to 50. 4K labor for a 12/12 pitch is unreasonable, especially if there are any valleys, hips, or real cut up. Could also be 2-3 stories. Anyone working that cheap is not licensed, not insured, and maybe not even paying taxes.

You saying you are at $300/square for steep pitch?

The price I quoted at 18K was cut up, valleys, hips, 2 stories, and multi layer shingles. It was close to 50 square with ridge and waste.

These also usually include 20 square of I&W also which may not be required in other areas. Shingles run from 75 to 100 a square.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:36 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by MJW

He says 45 square, so it could possibly be close to 50. 4K labor for a 12/12 pitch is unreasonable, especially if there are any valleys, hips, or real cut up. Could also be 2-3 stories. Anyone working that cheap is not licensed, not insured, and maybe not even paying taxes.

You saying you are at $300/square for steep pitch?

The price I quoted at 18K was cut up, valleys, hips, 2 stories, and multi layer shingles. It was close to 50 square with ridge and waste.

These also usually include 20 square of I&W also which may not be required in other areas. Shingles run from 75 to 100 a square.
Okay. 45 sq at 18k or $400 a square. If you can't do a steep roof for $400 a square, you need to redo some pricing because you are spending money somewhere you shouldn't.

4k labor on a 45 sq 12/12 pitch is being generous, at least without knowing heights. Two weeks ago the guys knocked out a 24 sq 12/12 three story cedar redeck and came in at 2600 labor. They all make between $16-23 a hour.

My post wasnt directed to you but rather to windows on wash. I'd like to see a picture of the house.

www.paragonexteriors.com
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:34 PM   #36
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Can new roof be fixed?


I am with Paragon on the price debate.. This whole thing doesn't make sense.. I think roofmaster had it right with the comparison of numbers with regards to ACV and the ins. quote.. I am sure an adjuster had to come out and view the roof, I find it hard to believe he didn't know the pitch.. People who did this roof didn't have a clue what they were doing, the GC should be embarrassed.. Needs new roof but I think that has already been established...
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:59 AM   #37
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Can new roof be fixed?


Wow, $16-$23 an hour? I hope that's after taxes, insurance, and WC.

Roofers wage is around $50-$55 an hour before taxes, ins., WC.

In MN, roofers are legally supposed to be employees of a licensed contractor or licensed themselves. Contractor or sub is supposed to be licensed and insured. WC, if you have it, is 42%. Liability another $4K. Licensing $500-$1000 a year. EPA requirements....$$$$$ Diesel fuel $4/gallon. Taxes in this state are outrageous. Could go on and on.

It's not as cut and dry as a regular employee or sub contractor job. Money misplaced???? I'd say so, but it's not the businesses, it's the GVMNT.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:09 AM   #38
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I'd like to see a picture of the house.
Here is a pre-new roof of the front. Rear has 3 dormers and a bay window. Only picture I have at work.

The first adjuster was pretty new and entered the wrong pitch in his software.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:17 AM   #39
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MJW - if you pay your employees $50 a hour, I'm shutting down my business and coming to work for you.

That's shocking. I've had all my suppliers tell me I pay too much and constantly get calls from guys looking for jobs

www.paragonexteriors.com
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:43 PM   #40
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Can new roof be fixed?


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MJW - if you pay your employees $50 a hour, I'm shutting down my business and coming to work for you.

That's shocking. I've had all my suppliers tell me I pay too much and constantly get calls from guys looking for jobs

www.paragonexteriors.com

I think he was using that figure as total hourly labor + labor burden. If not, I'll be applying, too.

Last edited by seeyou; 09-22-2011 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:56 PM   #41
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Can new roof be fixed?


Yes sir. The employee would end up with ~$20 an hour.

As you all know, it's tough to get steady good paying jobs like that. That is why this business is so corrupt. The companies using $40 off and on workers are flooding the market and surviving on pure volume. The customer usually gets the shaft with shotty work.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:09 PM   #42
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I am sure an adjuster had to come out and view the roof, I find it hard to believe he didn't know the pitch.
This might sound like something right out of the "Bob Villa Conspiracy Files" but.,I have had several adjusters who have claimed to have made an Oops on 5 or so homes that I know of this year.

The pitch was super steep (11/12-14/12) and the listed pitch at an 8/12.

IMO some of these adjusters go below Xactimate.,screw up pitch and square counts.And that is "IF" they find any damage to begin with.Then not pay you for ridge,drip edge,steep tear off and steep application and it gets through then thats money saved for the insurer.

I have had many,many,many reinspects this year too.Its a bit obvious what might be going on.I feel that they are throwing the homeowners a bone so to speak.

Toss them a figure and see if they bite or just tell them no damage was found.They are smart and crafty.

If they have 10,000 claims for damage.Just say 3,000 are 10/12 or more and they pay 8/12 on 1,000 of them then money is saved for the insurer.

Even if 500 of them got past the homeowner and contractor.,then that is money saved.

If out of those 10,000 claims 2500 have damage but the adjuster explains no damage.,then that is also money saved for the insurer.

I mean answer this question.If that is all you do daily is climb roofs.,combine square counts.,even if pictometry and eagle view are the only methods for calculating square counts then at some point you are going to start hitting semi accurate square counts.

Climbing roofs daily then you are going to know pitch pretty quick.

When using Xactimate they enter line items and doing that daily you start knowing about drip edge,ridge and other roof components.

I guess what I m saying is these are NOT Oops or my bad or oh so sorry I am only human.,IMO it is intentional.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:01 AM   #43
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Can new roof be fixed?


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Really guys?

40 sq at 18k? 6k materials tops. $500 dumpster. 4k labor tops with all taxes included.

$7500 OH+P. 3-4 days.

www.paragonexteriors.com
I was referring to the 12K for 45 squares. I must have misread the thread from earlier.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:54 AM   #44
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Can new roof be fixed?


As a follow up I got my $7,000 back plus $1500 for inside damages from the GC.

One other thing his inspector pointed out is that he used low pitch boots on the vent pipes causing them to be distorted.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

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