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Old 05-21-2010, 10:26 PM   #1
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


well next week is the purchase week. a bunch of 15/32nds cdx is being delivered along with shingles. shingle wise i have narrowed it down to the corning oakridge or certainteed landmark. both 30yr, is there anything worth mentioning before i buy? prices are identical. i'm slightly leaning on certainteed due to it's slightly thicker looking construction and the ability to have them roof delivered.

other things are:

from what i understand an 8D is the nail to use cdx to truss. does ribbed or smooth mater much in the northwest? trusses are 24" spaced and 2x4 construction

shingle to cdx is 1-1/4 correct?

i'm buying all new gutters and flashing

i strongly welcome input before i get going. i do have an experienced carpenter helping with this, however he has limited roofing exp. that being said we're double checking our process before we get started just to make sure there are no mistakes.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:43 PM   #2
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


Ring shank nails hold better, but coated smooth shanks are very commonly used on roof decking.

Turn the ice barrier down the face of the fascia, and put your gutter apron on top of it before you shingle. this will ease the gutter install later.

Take the time to measure and snap line for your courses before laying a shingle. The starter course is the most important line to keep straight. Make sure your rake shingles are at a 90 degree angle to the starter shingles. Your carpenter will know how to use the 3-4-5 method for this.

Dont be afraid to snap a line every 6 courses. Gtape is good for this:

http://gtape.com/

The site is down right now, but they are still selling it. This comes in really handy for situations like going over dormers to keep your course lines straight.

Do you have any valleys?
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:03 AM   #3
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


Quote:
Originally Posted by racebum View Post
well next week is the purchase week. a bunch of 15/32nds cdx is being delivered along with shingles. shingle wise i have narrowed it down to the corning oakridge or certainteed landmark. both 30yr, is there anything worth mentioning before i buy? prices are identical. i'm slightly leaning on certainteed due to it's slightly thicker looking construction and the ability to have them roof delivered.

Prices being the same, the Landmark is the better shingle, IMHO.

other things are:

from what i understand an 8D is the nail to use cdx to truss. does ribbed or smooth mater much in the northwest? trusses are 24" spaced and 2x4 construction

Smooth is fine, ring shank is better.

shingle to cdx is 1-1/4 correct?

Correct.

i'm buying all new gutters and flashing

i strongly welcome input before i get going. i do have an experienced carpenter helping with this, however he has limited roofing exp. that being said we're double checking our process before we get started just to make sure there are no mistakes.
See Aaron's reply above.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:11 PM   #4
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


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Ring shank nails hold better, but coated smooth shanks are very commonly used on roof decking.

Turn the ice barrier down the face of the fascia, and put your gutter apron on top of it before you shingle. this will ease the gutter install later.

Take the time to measure and snap line for your courses before laying a shingle. The starter course is the most important line to keep straight. Make sure your rake shingles are at a 90 degree angle to the starter shingles. Your carpenter will know how to use the 3-4-5 method for this.

Dont be afraid to snap a line every 6 courses. Gtape is good for this:

http://gtape.com/

The site is down right now, but they are still selling it. This comes in really handy for situations like going over dormers to keep your course lines straight.

Do you have any valleys?
line snapping for sure. we're actually using a roll of starter strip and following certainteeds advice on shingle lay out. basically the 5 step, full shingle, trim, trim etc. 36', 29" and so forth. as far as the house. it's a foreclosure i picked up in january and have been rebuilding. from what jason said {carpenter} it's a seriously easy house. here are a few pictures of what we're working with.







the chimney is going away completely. also, i'm split on a winter dam aka the ice guard. this house currently does not have one and is on the original 1985 roof. no moisture what so ever is inside. that being the case it would seem after a 25yr test that our climate doesn't really require one even though they do seem like a great idea. i like the idea of that 3' seal running up both sides. i just haven't priced them. around here we pay $15.50 for 15/32 cdx and 63.90 a square for certainteed landmarks. that's contractor price anyway. add 10% for retail.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:19 PM   #5
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last question on the 8d nails. can you use normal smooth brite framing nails or do they have to be galvanized exterior grade? i have quite a few interior 8d's laying around and since no moisture or exposure will ever get to them, does it matter?

Last edited by racebum; 05-23-2010 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:43 PM   #6
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


i like cement coated
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:48 PM   #7
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


I wuld upgrade to 5/8 cdx or even 3/4 for 24" centers. I know 1/2" is rated for 24" but it will show sags in time.
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:12 AM   #8
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you are 100% correct. the house was built with .418 osb for roof sheathing and there are sags. however, the sags were caused by not de mossing the roof and allowing a petri dish to grow, the shingles lifted and water was introduced. the heavy moss areas are where the sags are. the house was also built in 1985 so we're basically at 25yrs old on the original roof and sheathing. this whole deal came down to dollars for me. 15/32 cdx which is the same .418" if you use a caliper to measure it runs $18-22 a sheet around here {the price went up again since my last post} 19/32 is 20-24 a sheet. osb was 15.77 just last week but absolutely plummeted this morning to 10.77 with that big of a cost spread the idea of cdx just evaporated. after using a 10% coupon i was able to score a 70pc pallet of .418 osb for $678 or 9.69 a sheet. i liked the idea of using cdx but not for twice the money. when i walked into home depot this morning and noticed a ton of canadian LP osb at that price, well, i just grabbed a bundle. the dumpster shows up tomorrow and next week we get crackin with the tear off.

Last edited by racebum; 06-03-2010 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:52 PM   #9
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


Good luck with the job but there is no way I would ever use 7/16 OSB on rafters or trusses that are 24" on center
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:10 PM   #10
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


I have to agree, I don't even use 1/2" on 16" OC let alone 24"
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:11 PM   #11
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you know what i hate right now. i hate typing the fact i TOTALLY agree with you both but am in a real pickle. next week my step brother can help me virtually for free. he's a trained union journeyman with more experience than i'll ever have. shortly there after he's moving. i also don't have any other friends that are construction handy so i would be hiring. i so totally realize the extra $700 to step up to 3/4" cdx would be a wonderful idea. i just can't squeeze it. this roof i started tearing off today turns out to be TWO layers on 7/16 osb. so yes, roughly 500lb/sq on a 7/16 deck 24"oc. another just insane situation was the lack of cleaning on the old roof. it still had moss and pine needles all over. total hack slap job with only 3 nails per full shingle. tons of moisture on the tar paper and under {partially due to that moss they never cleaned}. some of the osb was soggy where the roof vents were. oh, the skylight actually pulled up. by pulled up i mean it was laying on a 2x4 frame. no seal, no fasteners. i'm just shocked at the level of hack some roofing companies do. i can totally visualize it though, the people who owned this house before probably shopped bids and went with the cheapest one because they sure got what they paid for.

i actually consider my new osb deck to be a bit of a corner cut but it's no where near what was up there
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:53 PM   #12
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


If you are going to stay with a single layer of 7/16osb, then u should be using the h-clips at all seams or installing some kind of blocking to strengthen the edge.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:29 PM   #13
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


You are going with OSB on the deck instead of plywood ??
OSB will sag at 24" without any load on it

*edit* I stand corrected
Properly installed it meets code
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:05 AM   #14
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If you are going to stay with a single layer of 7/16osb, then u should be using the h-clips at all seams or installing some kind of blocking to strengthen the edge.
i'm open to ideas on blocking. my 2x4's have roughly 1/4" of deflection at 10' one bad area might be closer to 3/8'. i was considering running stringer 2x4's down each side of the truss nailed every 12" with 16d's, since there are only two areas that have any real deflection it seemed like a easy fast fix. i have no idea if doing so is accepted construction technique though.

i also plan on using samson H clips on all edges, figure 2 on the 4' side and 4 clips on the 8' side.

as for scuba and the plywood/osb comment. you know, i always was under the impression that plywood was stronger as well. everything i find on the net seems to say they are comparable in strength though. i considered making a 7/8" deck doubling the osb but decided against it due to A: the osb on the house being from 1985 which was back when all the problems with it seemed to happen B: it's starting to delaminate and C: moisture is present in places. cross bracing my trusses would greatly increase the strength but that's a ton of 2x4s i would need. the idea did cross my mind though. you think adding horizontal cross bracing in the middle of each sheet at a later date would be worth doing? i could use dual 16d's through the truss end nailed to the 2x4 cross. the only thing that would be nice to do is nail that deck to the cross, that i can't do with the roof on.

i'm all ears guys. i just happen to be financially stuck with a job that's just barely above minimum code {3/8" is actually rated 24/0}. not really what i planned but better than the sh*& i tore off.

Last edited by racebum; 06-04-2010 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:02 AM   #15
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buying shingles next week, before i do......


How about some facts..........Up here 90% of the new homes have 24" OC rafters and 1/2" OSB and H clips with no problems, even with the snow load.

How do you know that what you are tearing off was done by a Pro? Maybe it was another homeowner in the past????? Or maybe you are right and they were just being cheap. Either way someone is cutting corners to save a buck and look at what you have to deal with.

If you are adding another layer of sheathing, make sure you think about what you are going to do with the edges (fascia, roof edge, etc..).
Make sure you correct anything with the ventilation and/or insulation while you have the roof open.
OSB is just as strong as most plywood. Plywood will bow just laying on the ground, OSB will not.
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