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Old 06-04-2012, 09:23 PM   #1
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


Hi All,
I'm a first time homeowner as of December and am loving fixing all sorts of things but of course curse when new problems arise.

So the latest problem: after about 8 inches of rain in a 36hr period I discovered water in my basement. It looked as if it was coming from my sill plate (wood sitting on top of my concrete foundation) I pulled the insulation out from the area and it was soaked.. Looking up I discovered water was dripping from the subfloor onto the sill plate then down onto the concrete and then running down the walls.(will post a pic of this) So I initially assumed I wasn't draining water properly from the foundation (but weird that it was getting in to the wood..)
Outside I noticed the drainspout had blown off in the storm so I was dumping a ton of water in that corner-but I aslo did an inspection of the gutters above to make sure there were no clogs.

Heres what I found- Gutters are clear. Water is running from the roof into the gutters BUT it also seems to be running ? behind the fascia plate and then out between where my siding and the plate meet. It then runs down the siding, drips on to the window sill below (which is rotting out and now I know why) and then drips onto the ground directly were the basement leaks are.

So questions include- 1) Can anyone tell if i've got a drip edge based on the picture posted? 2) I'm inclined to say I need to rip all the siding off this corner and look at the wood below it to make sure it isn't rotted out since this has been happening for a while. 3) any other suggestions on how to fix?!

Many thanks in advance and sorry for a long post- hoping more info up front is helpful.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #2
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


Hopefully you can see how the water is coming in through the wood (and how scarily wet that wood is)
Also posted a shot of the house from farther back which shows some dirt streaking on the front of the siding- indicating to me this has been going on for a bit.

More info: roof is about 8 years old, replaced by previous owners. When I bought the house they said there had never been water in the basement BUT this is their vacation house so its likely they weren't here during these crazy rain storms we've been having. So- hoping that this hasn't been going on for 8 years.

Currently a dehumidfier is running in the basement but we've got rain forcaseed for at least another 2 days so no hope of letting the wood dry out yet.
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-reduced-size-water-problem.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-outside-house-.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-really-wet-sill-floor-joists-wood.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-gutters-w-o-notations.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-wide-angle-water-problem.jpg  


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Old 06-05-2012, 06:16 AM   #3
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


Geez--that's a mess---I am not a roof and siding guy--but this post will bring your thread back to the top of the list.--Mike--
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:26 AM   #4
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


You posted two shots of the top of the wall, what about down below along the ground edge. How high up does the dirt go along the foundation? If the wood is that soaked, you have something more than problems with the gutters, which do appear to be at an angle and undersized.

Post some pictures showing the wall as it meets the ground, but not so close up, that it is hard to tell. People can zoom in on a picture if they need to, by pressing Ctrl, Shift, +. If they want to key into a particular area.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:09 AM   #5
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


It is realy hard to tell if there is any drip edge there. It looks like there is none though. Drip edge material is usually aluminum although there has been some plastics used in the past. This picture is a pretty common style of drip edge.



The long section with the ribs goes up under the starter row of shingles. This allows the first row of shingles to slightly overhang the edge of the roof to allow water to run off and not wick back along the facia and run down the siding.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:15 AM   #6
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


+1

Can't discern a drip edge and need more information pictures.

Are there any leaks showing about the window?

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Old 06-05-2012, 09:46 AM   #7
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


where in relation to that window is the leaky area? It looks to be confined to one floor joist bay. General construction principles would have the wall studs directly over the floor joists. Not always but most times. It is likely that the water is coming down one stud bay in the wall. As others have requested, please post pics of the lower section of the wall. Is there sufficient foundation exposed between the sill plate and the ground?
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #8
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


I'd be more concerned with water getting in around one of the windows and finding its way down the wall.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:55 AM   #9
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


A bit hard to tell but your gutters seem at an angle and it looks like water from roof might flow over them? A side picture of the gutter and roof would help (side of house side; not the front).
Top of window may not be flashed properly and allowing water to run behind and down wall.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:07 PM   #10
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


Hi all,
I'm stuck at work at the moment but drew this diagram to help I the location of issues. I obviously haven't had a chance to meausure things but in response to questions about location of the sil plate relative to the grade I would have to say its at least 6-12 inches above grade. There is a set of 3steps to my front door and about 1.5ft of exposed concrete foundation outside. If the floor joists are ~8 inches plus the subfloor the sill plate is a maximum of maybe 12" below the front door threshold which leaves it about 6-8" above grade.

Also re:questions about the bottom of the basement wall- it was essentially dry except for the areas where you could see water had rolled down the wall and pooled below. We've had a break in the rain and I've been running a dehumidifier all night so you cant see the water anymore. There are pics of inside and out now posted below.

Location of that window is directly above the area that is leaking. There are 2 wall sections that are leaking and they are the width of the window away from each other. Hmm suspicious.

Also discovered that there is more than likely a drip edge (see new pic) but I still don't understand why water runs btwn the gutter and fascia board and drips out under the gutter.
Lastly- included a side pic of house and gutter as requested. When I was up there on the ladder it looked pretty level to me. I know the angle in the pic isn't the best.

Would you think I should address both the gutter and the window flashing? What would your threshold be for considering a sill plate repair? I poked at it this am and it wasn't too soft but the wood that runs between the floor joists (the one that looked incredibly wet in the original pics) is definitely rotted in those places. (what the name of that piece of wood?)

Thanks for the thoughts! Keep 'em coming!
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-drip-edge-place-i-think-.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-full-front-house.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-full-basement-wall.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-schematic-house.jpg   Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?-side-house-gutter.jpg  

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Old 06-05-2012, 06:20 PM   #11
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


A pictureof the entire house showing the grading that is up against the foundation will help==
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:30 PM   #12
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


It could be a combination of bad details.

Removing a few panels to follow the trail is what I'd do first.

You could start with a hose test though.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:55 PM   #13
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


I'd still put money on the window being the issue.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:11 AM   #14
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


What I would do as a test/temp fix is to use some flashing material (Aluminum coil stock) to make some dirvirters to put behind the drip edge and over the gutter in the areas that are running behind the gutter. From the overall picture I see of the front of the house there is definatly water running behind the gutter. In one of the earlier pictures you can see where there is a gap between the top of the vinyl siding and the aluminum freeze board trim. As the water runs down the freexe board it looks like it can get behind the vinyl siding in that area and run down the wall behind the siding. Once it gets back there it is anyones guess as to where it may go . The only way to see that would be to remove some of the siding and investigate. One of the big hurdles in this whole problem is overcoming the inherent design flaw of not having any overhang of the roof. This type of design feature on your house tends to lead to this type of problem as the water exits the roof right at the side wall. Try the test I mentioned and see if it helps the problem for the next rain storm.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:27 AM   #15
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Basement problem... but is it really the roof!?


There are a couple possibilities here
1) Either rain is overshooting the eavestrough or it is filling and spilling over. Wind pushes it against the siding where it runs down into the vinyl trim at the top of the window, where it is channeling water to the corners. From there it can get in behind the siding and down into the basement.
2) The trim at the bottom of the metal fasica may also be allowing water behind the siding. Water seems to be traveling between the fascia and eavestrough because of a poor drip edge.

Overall you wouldn't have this problem if it was a house with overhangs.
Edit: I basically said the same thing as Dan, his coil stock idea is a good one!


Last edited by shazapple; 06-06-2012 at 07:35 AM.
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