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Old 07-02-2008, 11:15 AM   #1
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


Well, I'm a first time homeowner, and I'm learning as I go.

We are having a leak issue in the basement.

Best way to describe it is with pictures:







The builder came back and caulked this area, because it was thought the water was running down the side of the house, into the siding channel, and leaking in that way. Thats not the case unfortunatly.





Area of damage in basement. The damp spot is confined to the area between the studs. Now, it appears there is a black mold looking substance growning there. The white junk is insulation I pulled.

Had I not been in the basement doing some electrical work, it's entirely possible I wouldn't have found this until later in the year when we plan on finishing out the basement.

No damage is apparent inside the house, wood floor adjacent to the wall is fine, no evidence of water on the drywall. We hanve not repainted inside, and the builder uses cheap-o paint, so I would figure any evidence of water intrusion would be noticable.





Last edited by TAftonomos; 07-02-2008 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:15 AM   #2
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...







As explained to me BY THE BUILDER, the design has a flaw in that the gable forces them to cut the gutter. Well, Why the hell did you build it that way, his response was they were unaware of this problem before. I could hammer him up and down about being a dumbass, but that isn't going to get me anywhere.

To me, the cricket looks pretty small, and the water isn't being forced away from that side of the house (evidenced by the staining of the siding by shingle debris).

Builder is coming out today, but I'm still upset that I spent a bunch of money on my first house, and ended up with something like this.

I'm located just south of Atlanta GA, if that is of any assistance.

It has been suggested to me to place a 90 deg strip of flashing at a 45deg angle on the gable roof to force water away from the house.

Pics here at the bottom of that wall show the water is running down the inside of the siding. What I think is happening is once it reaches the bottom of the wooden wall, it has no where to go and comes inside the basement.







ANY help you can provide is GREATLY appreciated!


Last edited by TAftonomos; 07-02-2008 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:00 PM   #3
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


Even without that tight valley ending in the corner, you would still have problems.

I do not see any "Kick-Out" Flashing at the bottom row of the shingles.

That is an angles bottom step flashing that diverts the water away from the cut in the siding. It is one of the most common errors done, but not recognized as quickly as in your case, because yours also has the water-fal affect of excessive water al being channeled into that tight location.

I will post a link later as to what a "Kick-Out" flashing is.

Now, if you hired a home inspector to take infra-red images of that entire wall, you would see all of the moisture laden areas.

Ed
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:03 PM   #4
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


This is a Kick Out Flashing that is pre-manufactured, but it can also be field fabricated out of standard baby tin step flashings, if the guy knows how to use tin snips and think like water.

http://dryflekt.com/

Ed
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:49 PM   #5
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If I understand it correctly, the excessive amount of water (or any water), is being diverted off the wall by the cricket, but is leaking into the wall from the siding cutout around the gutter/trim etc?

Would a larger cricket be in order as well?

I'm assuming the diverter would keep the water from directly hitting the siding, keeping it flowing into the gutter?
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:55 PM   #6
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


I didn't notice this before, but you also have a brick wall that needs a higher counter-flashing to be installed. Sorry, I though it was all siding in the bottom of that valley.

edit:
Is that a vinyls sided section to the right of that valley/cricket? After looking at the photos again, I think it is, so my first conclusion was right on target.

The Kick Out flashing still is needed, but so is a proper step flashing and counter flashing that goes high enough on the brick veneer to avoid splashed water running downhill and saturating through it.

Ed

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 07-02-2008 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:33 PM   #7
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


First off, thanks again for looking/answering this post

Second, you've lost me.

Is the flashing you are describing basically flashing off the cricket to deflect water into the gutter?
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:23 AM   #8
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


When you install the siding on the wall
(that the builder caulked bottom of),
as you get up to roof level your wall widens, at that point your siding is cut to make that transition,
where that cut is, the top of the panel of siding should be behind the shingles step flashings (5 x 7's),
than the remainder of the siding panels would be over the step flashings.

It doe's not appear to be that way in your pics.

Remove the siding panels, starting with the panel cut there, "roof level",
place a piece of metal flashing that fits behind the step flashings and covers the top of the siding panel (the one cut to form around the shingles there),
install ice & water shield on the wall (no less than 12 inches high),
the I&W will be over top the step flashings,
than reinstall your siding.

The cut out in the gutter up above should not be an issue so ling as they properly flashed that wall.

Explain this to the builder, he most likely will send his siders out to correct the issue for you.
If he doe's not take care of it, ask him to reccomend a good home (roof) inspection company, I'm sure he'll change his mind than.

Edited for I&W comment.
Even people who live in areas that do not have issues with ice producing weather can still find uses for I&W as a protection in areas like you have in that poorly designed/constructed valley area.
If there is no added protection under those shingles, valley metal, ice & water shield, etc., that area of your roof will fail and begin leaking, way before the rest of the roof.
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Last edited by Slyfox; 07-03-2008 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:44 PM   #9
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


Little late to the game here. The pics on my site might help you. The siding hacks are my 'Pet Peeve'

http://www.albertsroofing.com/Window%20Flashing.htm
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:31 PM   #10
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


Any chance I can save a few of those pictures, and maybe any others you want to contribute?
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:13 PM   #11
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Also, where the heck is the House Wrap, also known as the WRB, ot weather resistant barrier.

Your walls behind that siding are doomed, I am sorry to say.

Go to the link for the Vinyl Siding Institute, VSI, and you will find out that vinyl siding is not weather-tight and MUST have proper weather barrier material in place behind the product.

Ed



Here is the link and click on the NEW updated manual for more information:

http://www.vinylsiding.org/publications/

Read This:

Water-Resistive Barrier
Vinyl siding has always been designed as an exterior cladding, not a water-resistive barrier.

Vinyl siding is designed to allow the material underneath it to breathe; therefore, it is not a
watertight covering.

Because of its design and application, it provides a supplemental rain screen
that enhances the water-resistive barrier system by reducing the amount of water that reaches the
underlying water-resistive barrier.

What Is a Water-Resistive Barrier System?

It is a system that includes water shedding materials
and water diversion materials. Water-resistive barrier systems commonly consist of a combination

3
of exterior cladding, fl ashed wall openings and penetrations, water-resistive barrier material, and
sheathing. Effective water-resistive barrier systems will shed the water initially, control moisture fl ow
by capillary and diffusion action, and minimize absorption into the wall structure. The level of water
resistance required is determined by the applicable building code and structure.
Best Practice:

To achieve designed performance, vinyl siding must be installed over a water-resistive
barrier system that includes

1) a continuous water-resistive material and

2) properly integrated fl ashing
around all penetrations and where vinyl siding interfaces with other building products such as brick,
stone, or stucco. Refer to the manufacturer’s instructions for specifi c product applications and recommendations.
Whichever product(s) you decide to use as part of a water-resistive barrier system, be
certain the materials meet the applicable building code by contacting the manufacturer of the waterresistive
barrier material(s). Always consult the applicable building code for minimum water-resistive
barrier requirements in your area. Keep in mind that additional measures may provide better protection

against water intrusion than the minimum requirements of the building code.
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Old 07-04-2008, 06:06 AM   #12
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


Ed. I'm also aware of that tech data. But I've never seen damage 'In the field' area of a siding job. As seen in these pictures, it's always at penetrations.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:44 PM   #13
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


Not required when my house was built by GA code (they just changed it). Weird part is SOME of the house has the wrap, and other parts dont? Thats all you get for $250K I guess.

Use the pics, no problem. I would PM you, but my post count isn't high enough?!?

Thanks again for the advice. The builder's roofer came out, and said nothing was wrong. I called 6 roofers before the holiday, no one has called me back yet. Hoping for a call early this week.
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:53 PM   #14
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Bad roofing design, need help fixing...


Thank you sir for the pictures. I looked closely and the gutter doesn't dump behind the siding. Just the roof flashing.

If you look behind the siding around your windows, you may find more damage that needs rectifing before it gets too bad.

As pics on my site show, Tyvek on the walls don't prevent damage if the siding itself isn't flashed too.

Stay on the builder's case!
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:31 PM   #15
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If the house is already 1.5 years old, and .5 out of warranty, is there anything I can do?


I've got no idea if the builder installed the windows correctly, and I'm not sure if I should go pulling off all the siding around the house to check?

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