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Old 05-24-2012, 12:19 PM   #1
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architectural shingles versus metal


We are trying to decide on architectural certainteed shingles for our 1928 bungalo in tallahasse florida or corning or atas metl shingles . which shingle would be better for this climate long term?

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Old 05-24-2012, 03:10 PM   #2
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architectural shingles versus metal


metal is always longer term than asphalt. As far as those particular products I am not familiar with them so can't really comment on the specifics.

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Old 05-27-2012, 04:16 PM   #3
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+1

If you are comparing high quality asphalt to high quality metal, metal wins every time.

The differences become even more significant depending on your climate region.
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:04 PM   #4
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Add another,,,I recommend metal over asphalt too.

With you living in Florida the concern would be corrosion.The extremely hot and humid temps would be another.And hail.But the materials sold in your region are for your region.I would choose metal.

Make sure you check with your insurance carrier about a cosmetic clause concerning your metal roof system.With you living in the hail capital of the U.S the extra cost IMO will be worth it.

The cosmetic issue pertains to the visual aesthetics of your metal.People find out the hard way that even though your $20,000.00 or more metal roof is beat up from baseball size hail or any other size that creates impact strikes on the panels as long as its not leaking in the insurers eyes your roof is still functioning.So you have a beat up roof that looks like pooh but does not leak.And your stuck with it until another force of nature removes it for you.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:49 PM   #5
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architectural shingles versus metal


What is the point of installing metal over asphalt besides the look?

What benefits does metal have over asphalt?
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:47 PM   #6
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What is the point of installing metal over asphalt besides the look?

What benefits does metal have over asphalt?
By "over" I am going to assume that you mean as it applies to the comparison.

The scale of the benefit will depend in large part on the geographic location of the structure and the construction type.

In general, metal is going to well outlast its shingle counter parts. The rainwater from the metal roof does not contain any VOCs and is therefore safe for rainwater collection and redistribution systems.

Metal roofs are going to have better resistant to impact and penetration, however, they will show damage. Vertically raised standing seam will certainly show damage but some of the panel systems will do a great job of hiding any hail impact damage.

Metal roofs will also have the benefit of much higher solar reflectivity and emissivity rates, thus allowing them to be cool roofs.

Metal roofs will also have much better wind ratings than asphalt roofs too.

Metal roofs will not be as receptive to biological growth like asphalt roofs are.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:49 AM   #7
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Windowsonwash - that I understand but what benefits does it actually have for the homeowner?

It costs more and has the same warranties. It's louder inside the home during a rain storm. If it gets damaged, insurance pays to replace either one.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:09 PM   #8
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architectural shingles versus metal


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Windowsonwash - that I understand but what benefits does it actually have for the homeowner?

It costs more and has the same warranties. It's louder inside the home during a rain storm. If it gets damaged, insurance pays to replace either one.
The benefits for the homeowner is that it much more closely resembles the roof that was installed originally (as compared to the black streaked roof in asphalt).

The second benefit would be the lack of the replacement cost. Regardless of the proposed "lifetime" warranties on shingles, I have yet to see one last 30 years and the consumable aspects of shingles (i.e. granules and bitumen sealant along the back) are largely unchanged over the years. Just adding more weight to the shingle and having that be the technology improvement to maintain a shingles resistance to wind lift is not my idea of a solution. Most wind warranties are usually 15 years if I recall properly.

The benefit in this case would be longevity. A properly installed steel roof of some quality will maintain its wind lift resistance and will not degrade overtime. It will also afford the homeowner a better warranty against wind lift over that lifetime with most metal roofs having sustained vs. instantaneous gust wind warranties.

Given the historical observations that the cost of an asphalt roof roughly doubles every 10 years, that replacement cost on that roof in 20-30 years (if the homeowner lives there that long) is going to be steep. Even when clients tell me they won't be there that long, there are valuation improvements that can be accounted for with the more premium roof and can translate into improvements in property values.

Most home inspectors also tell clients that they should depreciate the value of the roof if it is over 15 years, regardless of warranty provided by the manufacturer (right, wrong, or indifferent). This results in a lower offer

The higher SR and TE numbers associated with metal can translate to huge reductions in cooling costs in the warmer climates. Many homes have 2 zone systems that live in the attic. A home with a metal roof, regardless of proper ventilation, will be much more hospitable and efficient that one with asphalt.

Metal roofs are not louder during rainstorms in installations that are done over a deck vs. a set of purlins/battens where no roof deck is present.

The old sound of rain on a tin roof was for scenarios where there was no roof deck and the metal was exposed and viewable from the attic.

True, an insurance company will wind up paying to replace it regardless, however, if the asphalt roof gets damaged during a storm even and becomes compromised, it can let water into the structure and ruin the home. Most metal roofs will have much better storm ratings and will maintain the envelope protection and prevent further damage. Many do not have to be replaced in any capacity after a storm and some are resistant to showing any damage via hail. Once you have hail on an asphalt roof, the granules are cooked and the roof is on the way out most times.

Benefits:
-better warranty (most metal companies have better comprehensive coverages)
-better longevity
-better resale improvement
-more resistant to ice dams
-higher wind lift resistance
-much more efficient (i.e. cool roof)
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:43 PM   #9
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Yeah I just don't see the benefit when the manufacturers warranty is covering 50 years of non prorated coverage for materials, labor, tear off & disposal. Then also including 25 years of workmanship coverage backed by the manufacturer seems like a safe bet that if there are any problems, it will be fixed.

Don't you think the 130mph wind warranty on shingles is more than sufficient?

IMO - for most homeowners, the investment for metal isn't really worth it.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:12 PM   #10
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architectural shingles versus metal


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Yeah I just don't see the benefit when the manufacturers warranty is covering 50 years of non prorated coverage for materials, labor, tear off & disposal. Then also including 25 years of workmanship coverage backed by the manufacturer seems like a safe bet that if there are any problems, it will be fixed.
Labor, tear off, and disposal are not covered on wind or algae failures and their warranties are only 15 years at max.

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Don't you think the 130mph wind warranty on shingles is more than sufficient?
In Ohio, probably. Anywhere that is close to the coast or mountains, not even close. That "Lifetime" shingle is only warranted for 15 years on a wind lift too. That is one of my issues with the idea of "Lifetime" shingles. What is the biggest issue that facilitates shingle replacement and re-roofing....missing shingles.

So lets call the roof warranty what it really is...15 years.

Most metal roofs are rated for sustained wind warranty and not the gusts that shingles are.

I don't even live in the mountains but we do have some gusting winds. After a storm last year, 4 homes in my direct vicinity were missing shingles on roofs that are only 5 years old and they are "Lifetime" shingles. Send in your warranty and you wind up getting some replacements and a pat on the back for labor. Now you also have a roof that looks like a quilt.

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IMO - for most homeowners, the investment for metal isn't really worth it.
If you are going to be in the home for 10 years...probably not. That being said, just looking at it from and initial investment standpoint does not take any of the energy savings (can be significant in hotter climates), aesthetics or property valuation improvements into account.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:16 PM   #11
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architectural shingles versus metal


Windows - I don't know what warranties you include but most of mine are CertainTeed 5 Star. This means that blow offs are covered. Also from my understanding it also covers discoloration but not %100 sure about Algae.

Edit - That coverage is for 50 years.

As I said, it's just my belief that for residential homes, standard standing seam metal isn't really necessary or attractive.

I did learn some more things about metal though. Thanks.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:33 PM   #12
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architectural shingles versus metal


Paragon,

When I am speaking of metal, I am not just referring to vertically raised standing seam. There are a myriad of systems out there that are metal and have a bunch of different looks to them and install in more traditional manner.

I was referring to the standard warranty coverage and not the 5 star warranty. How do you address the 5 star warranty if the customer has old aluminum siding?

As soon a someone can show me a 50 year old asphalt roof, I will believe in that possibility. There are thousands of examples of 100+ year old metal roofs.

Feel free to email or PM me offline about metal. I would be happy to chat with you about the different options.
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:32 AM   #13
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I will agree with the fact that metal roofs can last longer than asphalt roofs, but look at the warranty. What will a metal roof look like in 50 years? Does the paint on the metal last 50 years? That is what MAY be important to most homeowners.

Even a clay or wood shangle roof may last a lifetime, but does it look good for that long?

An asphalt shingle roof in most areas will look and last better than alternatives with little or no maintenance with a much lesser cost.

Not too many in residential are looking for their "last roof" because it is not reality. Slate is the only material I have seen that lasts almost forever, but may have very expensive repairs along the way.

Cost effective will be asphalt in most areas to the average homeowner.

Asphalt shingles have been made for decades and still will be made for decades because it is an affordable solution for the majority.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:12 AM   #14
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architectural shingles versus metal


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I will agree with the fact that metal roofs can last longer than asphalt roofs, but look at the warranty. What will a metal roof look like in 50 years? Does the paint on the metal last 50 years? That is what MAY be important to most homeowners.
Weatherization data and fade projections show that many of the paint finishes will last 50 years barring any mechanical damage to the finish.

The stone coated steel panels are impregnated with ceramic granules that are baked into the base coat paint. They do not change color and therefore maintain their finish quality and coloration.

I have seen roofs that are 35+ years old with this technology and they look about as good as the new roof from a coloration standpoint.

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Even a clay or wood shangle roof may last a lifetime, but does it look good for that long?
Clay tiles should not change appearance with time. They may get some surface drying but by design, they are fundamentally unchanged with age and the color is throughout the tile.

Wood only looks good for about 1 year in most areas.

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An asphalt shingle roof in most areas will look and last better than alternatives with little or no maintenance with a much lesser cost.
Cost, yes. Looks and lifespan, not really. How many shingle blow offs do you see on a daily basis. Metal is more substantial and more proven over its lifespan.

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Not too many in residential are looking for their "last roof" because it is not reality. Slate is the only material I have seen that lasts almost forever, but may have very expensive repairs along the way.

Cost effective will be asphalt in most areas to the average homeowner.
Is it cost effective when you replace it in 20 years? I would agree that most folks are not thinking of their roof replacement sustainability from a 50 year standpoint, however, (quoting previous customers experience) they are thinking of 20 years. Most have replaced an asphalt roof of a bunch of shingles inside of that 20 years and are tired of servicing and fixing a 20 year old roof that now has no coverage for blow offs or algae formation. Couple that with the fact that there were a myriad of weather events inside of that 20 years that have invalidated the warranty and that paper you have is better suited for blowing your nose on.

I have customer going to a steel shingle for just that reason.

None of what was discussed in your post accounts for the cool roof aspect of metal's performance. Depending on the home and orientation, people with metal roofs can see upwards of a 20% reduction in cooling costs in comparison to an asphalt roof of the same color. That more than makes up for the delta in cost on the metal and makes the metal roof option a no-brainer.


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Asphalt shingles have been made for decades and still will be made for decades because it is an affordable solution for the majority.
I agree 100%. Metal will not replace asphalt in any capacity. I do think that it will gain some market share from asphalt as folks continue to replace 30-year roofs in 20 years.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:36 PM   #15
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I don't believe in the cool roof idea. It's a thought up idea from the left and global warming fanatics. It really has no affect on most homes with adequate insulation and ventilation, especially in the north. Heating is a bigger burden than cooling.

There is some radiant heat, but the ventilation should make up for it.

Some of the newer steel siding has reflective coating to keep it cooler. This is mainly to reduce expansion/contraction and to retain color. How many homes have steel siding over vinyl? Not too many that I see. Everyone knows steel is a better alternative to vinyl. Why????? Cost.

The main reason (besides a much better look) why people choose an arch shingle over a 3 tab is because the price difference is almost zero now.

I don't know many people that really care about something lasting 20 years or a lifetime. Most people only have a vehicle for 3-4 years that they pay upwards of $50K worth. Most only live in their home for 5-8 years, not 20 or a lifetime.

I would say that steel, clay, wood, asphalt, and slate all have their own areas of the country and it isn't going to change very quickly, if at all.

The 'argument' that steel is better than asphalt is an opinion at best. Why would anyone gamble on an opinion and spend 3-4x's the $$$ on that opinion?

In my area in MN, I don't think there is a supplier that even handles steel unless it is special order or pole barn steel. Certain small distributors that do steel roofs only, is the only place that would stock anything.

In 30 years of doing this, we have only had a handful of people asking about steel. Every one of them changes their mind when they find out the cost difference.

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