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Old 08-22-2012, 10:12 PM   #1
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


Hi I'm redoing the floor in my Bathroom. The floor was previously Laminant and Carpet. I was wondering about using a crack prevention membrane like RedGard http://www.homedepot.com/buy/floorin...ane-65156.html

Anyways I was wondering about puting the RedGard on because under the laminate flooring and carpet there was some glue that's not completely coming off. I've scraped it down really good, and there is some bare concrete, but there is also a little of the lamate adhesive residue. Most is gone.

So would it be OK to put the RedGard (Crack prevention membrane) on the cement now, dispite having some of the laminate residue?
This tiling job has become so much more than I had expected. I thought I'd just remove the carpet/laminate and then be able to tile right away since it's concrete....
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:56 PM   #2
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


Hi,

Usually laminates are not glued, not sure what you've got there. You've probably read the directions for Redgard and it tells you to:

Quote:
All surfaces
must be structurally sound, clean, dry and free from contaminants that
would prevent a good bond.
That doesn't sound like what you've got. You need to keep scraping till you get to gray concrete and it's porous enough to absorb water when you test with drops of water in the worst areas. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=wallp...9,r:0,s:0,i:76

Jaz
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:08 PM   #3
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


Arghhh... yeah i did read that. But i was hoping someone who had used RedGard would say all that crap didn't need to be removed.

Thanks for the advice. I actually have one of those large scrappers. It's not really getting all the adhesive off, it's just slowly scrapping it into a powder but it still is all over the foor.

I already feel like i have carpal tunnel syndrome on my wrist and have only been able to get the large chunks off and not the crusty white stuff left over

This project has taken several days just in preperation and removing the laminate....is there any way to easiliy remove this stuff down to the bare cement?

Before it had mainly faux tile Laminate flooring. I thought laminate flooring always uses adhesives?

here are a couple pics of the floor

this is a sideways picture of the part that had carpet. there's some sort of white stuff like paint that i've been scraping for hours. also the lines are the carpet glue


this shows more of the area where the laminate flooring was.


foreground where carpet was
background where laminate floor was

Last edited by crayola110; 08-22-2012 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:36 PM   #4
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


It'll scrape off, get new blades and put your weight into it. Might help to soak with hot water too. Keep it wet regardless cuz there's a slight chance the adhesive might contain asbestos. So make no dust. Do not use chemicals either.

Mapei makes this primer, I've never had the pleasure but sounds great for you.

http://www.mapei.com/public/US/produ...rip_TDS_EA.pdf

Jaz
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:53 PM   #5
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


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Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
It'll scrape off, get new blades and put your weight into it. Might help to soak with hot water too. Keep it wet regardless cuz there's a slight chance the adhesive might contain asbestos. So make no dust. Do not use chemicals either.

Mapei makes this primer, I've never had the pleasure but sounds great for you.

http://www.mapei.com/public/US/produ...rip_TDS_EA.pdf

Jaz
Thanks for the info. I will have to go at it again tomorrow. I have a couple long scrapers and hand held scrapers as wel. It's been so much work to get this stuff off. I'll try with hot watr as u suggested.

I noticedhat around the carpeted area it is something like paint if you can see from the pics. They must have painted before laying the floor. That paint like stuff is not responding to the scrapping.

About the Mapei... would I use this before applying the RedGard? I read somewhere that RedGard u can use as a primer by diluting 1:5 w/ water. I'm assuming it might not penetrate with all this adhesive and paint on he concrete...so could i just use the Mapei andthrow the RedGard right over?


Have you heard of an Uncoupling layer? Like Schluter-DITRA ? I was just google searching and found it. http://www.righttoolusa.com/p/Schluter-Ditra-1-8-Underlayment-150-Sq-Ft-Roll-4233771.html
Could I just put this on instead of the RedGard?

I mainly was puting RedGard on as a crack prevention membrane.


PS: i'm assuming it isn't asbestos as this buidling i'm in is from 1989. But who knows what other chemicals in it could be harmful? :-/

Last edited by crayola110; 08-23-2012 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:20 PM   #6
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


Quote:
Have you heard of an Uncoupling layer? Like Schluter-DITRA ?
Ahhhhhh, have you seen my signature line?

I use and sell Ditra all the time, best thing since sliced bread, as they say!

Yes use Ditra instead of Redgard, it's much better.

Grind the paint off. If you get down to a thin film of adhesive, and can see the concrete, using a high quality modified thin set should work well. Try hot water, and/or test by bonding a few tiles here and there for a week or so. Or scrape as much as possible then use the Mapei primer, (if you can find it), then
Ditra. Get back to us when you decide which way to go for further specific instructions.

I said not to use chemicals mainly solvents, cuz the solvents will soak into the concrete make matters worse. And of course some chemicals are dangerous esp. indoors.

Jaz
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:25 PM   #7
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


Haha I did not see that on your signature, just was googl searching "crack prevetion membrane"

I guess i'm a bit blind...

Is the Ditra easy to install? I heard you have to use a different (more expesive?) mortar for it?

I also don't have a grinder should i just try sanding it w electric sander?
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:39 PM   #8
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Tiling directly over concrete - crack prevention membrane?


Quote:
Is the Ditra easy to install? I heard you have to use a different (more expesive?) mortar for it?
Yes, it's easy. You must use a good quality mortar that is appropriate for the substrate you're bonding Ditra onto. Schluter wants us to install all tiles on Ditra using a premium unmodified thin set mortar, as apposed to what has become common these days which is modified mortar cuz it's more versatile. You can use the modified mortar but it's not necessary and actually costs more in most cases.

Sander with rough paper might work to remove the overspray paint.

Jaz
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