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Old 02-03-2010, 02:59 PM   #1
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Starting tile project...


First I would like to say that I just recently found this site. Im sure you know how hard it is to get real, solid answers, So I love this site and would like to thank you all!
Now, I am starting to start a tiling project, So forgive the ignorance.
I will be asking ?'s as they come(slowly). Should I newly post each one or just stay here and continue?
Ok, If I am doing (tiling) vertically do I mark center with an X(corner to corner) and place the first tile with the tip at the center, or do I stick with the +(cntr of the wall to same) and place each tip on the line, with center of tile on center of room? Does this make sense?

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Old 02-03-2010, 04:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
First I would like to say that I just recently found this site. Im sure you know how hard it is to get real, solid answers, So I love this site and would like to thank you all!
OK, I, for one, am duly buttered-up!

Quote:
Now, I am starting to start a tiling project, So forgive the ignorance.
Ignorance is not a sin. There are many things I am ignorant of. Installing tile is not one of those things however.

Quote:
I will be asking ?'s as they come(slowly). Should I newly post each one or just stay here and continue?
Use only one thread per job, it makes for easier review and continuity for everyone.

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Ok, If I am doing (tiling) vertically do I mark center with an X(corner to corner) and place the first tile with the tip at the center, or do I stick with the +(cntr of the wall to same) and place each tip on the line, with center of tile on center of room?
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Does this make sense?
Not even a little bit.

Determine your wall center. Then decide which is the better way to lay the tile.
1.) Using the center of a tile for the center line, or,
2.) Using a grout line for the center line.
Choose the position that offers the widest piece of tile when you get to the end of the wall (left and right).

Same may go for the tile spacing/layout up and down also.

NOW, before we go any further...tell us what you are tiling. And don't say "a wall", we got that part already.

Where is this wall and what's under the tile on this wall? How big is the tile and how big is the wall?

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Old 02-03-2010, 06:57 PM   #3
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Starting tile project...


Actually sorry, it is a floor. I picked up the vertical word from someone telling me that is what you call it when you go with the diamond design, as oppossed to a square design. On that note, I am tiling over concrete, never had anything(flooring) on it before.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:14 AM   #4
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Just learned I meant Diagonal! Should I buy a tile cutter and a wet saw? I will be putting in either ceramic or porcelin.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:10 AM   #5
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You will want to use a wetsaw--They can be rented.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:58 AM   #6
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Actually sorry, it is a floor. I picked up the vertical word from someone telling me that is what you call it when you go with the diamond design
Well good!!!

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Just learned I meant Diagonal!
Well good!!!

Let's back up a little.
Ignorance isn't a sin, BUT, it shouldn't be abused.

OK,OK,OK, starting over!

You are laying your tile D-I-A-G-O-N-A-L-L-Y on a concrete floor.

So now...you need to determine the center of the room from both directions and make a center-point mark. Then use a carpenter's square to determine a 45 degree angle. That's 45 degrees to the longest of the walls.

You now need to mark the floor along this 45 degree angle straight through the center point mark. Be absolutely sure you are at exactly 45 degrees to the longest wall. You'll need a chalk box and a helper to do this.

Once this line is down it becomes your "baseline" and all that is legal fair and moral will depend on this line being accurate.

Now layout some tile on the floor, dry. No thinset. Line up the tiles in a square pattern for now using your baseline as a point of beginning. You'll be working from the diagonal baseline but the pattern is still a square pattern but crooked to the room. Don't let that get in the way of your thinking at this point.

OK, now you have maybe nine tiles laying on the floor and adjusted to your desirable grout spacing in both directions. How we doin' so far?

Use a tape measure and without moving the tile, hook a tile furthest from you with your tape and pull it across two tiles crossing over and INCLUDING the second grout line. THIS measurement is now your "spacing detail measurement" to be used everywhere. This is the measurement that represents two rows of tile WITH two grout lines.

Now use that measurement to measure off from your base line at both ends of your base line and snap your second line across those two points. Continue this measuring and snapping of chalk lines until you have filled the allowable space with the necessary lines.

You now have an area of diagonal lines crossing the entire room.

Lat's do it again, this time "square off" (use a carpenter's square) your original base line to determine where your opposing lines will go and repeat the above process. When you are finished you will have an entire room with a chalk line grid laid on the floor.

At this point...you can start anywhere and begin laying tile. REMEMBERING to "lay-to" the correct chalk line each time. Stay with the grid religiously and don't swap the grout lines from one side of a chalk line to another.

NOW, I understand your first question about the "X" thing. A simple "X" isn't the answer to the problem. The grid system is.

Stay with your chalk lines no matter what (assuming your lines are correct throughout) and you won't need to use spacers anywhere. This method is 100% reliable. The time it takes to do it is well worth the time investment. The hardest part of any tile installation is in the planning, not the doing.

Here's the rub: If your walls are not "square" and they aren't. Then the only true 45 degree angled cuts will be at the wall you used to determine your base line. The other wall-cuts could be off slightly and will need to be adjusted with each cut. Not the end of the world.

I'll tell you where to send your check when this is done.

Last edited by Bud Cline; 02-04-2010 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:15 AM   #7
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Should I buy a tile cutter and a wet saw?
Slow down there Missy!

Not all tiles cut well with a dry snap cutter, especially when it comes to trying to make diagonal cuts in abundance so I would rule that out.

A wet saw is your best bet. As stated above they can be rented.
However, in this case you could have a huge rental charge at the end of the job because these kind of cuts take time.

Quote:
I will be putting in either ceramic or porcelain.
OK, "porcelain tile IS ceramic tile. Porcelain just uses a slightly different recipe in the manufacturing process and it is an all around better product than garden variety ceramic tile. Porcelain has thru-body color and a very low absorbency rate (0.5%) and can be used out doors.

Porcelain tile can also be very dense. It is for that reason you will need a quality wet saw. I doubt one of those $80 Big Box saws will get the job done.

How much tile are we talking about anyway? Is this a basement floor?
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:14 PM   #8
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Thank you, Give me a little time to absorb and work with the info.It is part of an addition that never got to flooring. Square footage is about 192 , (area of 16x12).
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:20 PM   #9
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ok, how do I know im on an exact 45 deg. angle with a square?
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Old 02-07-2010, 02:35 PM   #10
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I KNOW! Confusing!

After determining the center of the room measurement, choose your longest wall. Use that (center of the room measurement) and measure out from that longest wall on one end and make a mark. Then go to the other end of that same wall and again measure out using the same dimension and make another like mark.

Now you can snap a straight line from the first mark to the second mark. This will give you your center line paralleling the longest wall.

Using a carpenters square you can now lay the square on that line bias to the line. Line-up the square's legs on the chalk line. Place the square on the 12" designation on both legs of the square. This will put the legs of the square at 45 degrees to the center-line. You can now extend those lines along the outside edges of the carpenters square. Any number on the square will work as long as you use the same number on both legs of the square.

Are you now thoroughly confused?
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:50 AM   #11
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Im getting it. But I feel that I will be abusing my ignorance here. Ive had a slight emergency in between but am back on task now. Ok, do I measure out from (on the longest wall) the furthest point, then measure the same distance out from the opposite furthest end of the same wall?Does it matter how far of a distance I measure out? And you said to use the center marking of the room to help with this. How am I going to use the center if Im measuring out from the wall and not the center mark? Sorry and thank you so much for this. I may not know what the hell Im doing but it only takes me once to actually do it."Everything is simple, the hardest part is finding the simplicity"
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:02 AM   #12
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It's a small thing but walls can wave a little. I first measure at the center just to get the needed measurement, and I make a (tentative) mark there. That mark is simply for a quick reference later. Then I use that measurement number to measure back to the center twice more, once from each end of the same wall. I snap a chalk line between the last two measurements.This way I have measured it three times. If the line drawn between the furthest points (paralleling the long wall) gets too far away from my first center mark then I know I must have mismeasured on one end or the other and need to check myself.

One more thing when measuring, and it's another small issue but I'm anal. When drywall finishers do there thing the inside corners and the outside corners will have an abundance of joint compound and those areas will in fact be somewhat proud of the rest of the walls. The joint compound is thicker in those locations. I make my measurements about 16-20 inches down-range and away from any corner or any end-wall. This way you can get your (to the wall) grout joints on mark more accurately and sometimes you may have to cut the pieces of tile in the corners and at the end-walls a little weird or a little crooked. Not a big deal.

I'm doing my best to get you screwed up so how's that going for me so far?

Last edited by Bud Cline; 02-13-2010 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:27 PM   #13
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OK, If I am correct here, I used the square and places both legs at the same measurement, but I did it @ the center mark, well one leg on center and the other downward on line. Is that ok? Now Ive been assumming (shame on me)that the "X" or 45 degree angle was going to take me to the corners of the walls, this is not the case, Is that correct? The angle is taking me to about 22" short of corners? Is that correct? If most of this is correct im getting there, Im not making the angle lines until you say thats correct. Thank you, and thank you for being anal.P.s. I ordered the tiles, wont be here till the first of march. Is there anything I should know when purchasing a wet saw? Just trying to stay ahead of the plan.

Last edited by rsclark67; 02-15-2010 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:23 PM   #14
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Also do I need to get a certain thin set or anything will do?
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:14 PM   #15
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OK, the next step is to do what you have done and determine the position you want the tiles to fall-out at the walls. If you want to start dead center then that's what you have done, (I think). But if starting dead center creates an issue of too many small cuts at the walls then you can shift the whole enchilada in any direction to accommodate larger cuts.

On a diagonal layout it isn't unusual to have smaller giblets somewhere but you can ALMOST ALWAYS eliminate them by shifting your layout.

I know, I know, it's a pain in the butt, but hey! That's why we get THE BIG BUCKS.

Any of the "modified thinset tile mortars" will work for you, I think. You should be paying around $18-$20 per fifty pound bag. That will put you in a fair range of thinsets. If this is stone tile, or other freaky issues exist, speak up, you may need to tweak the thinset in some fashion.

There is a brand new modified thinset on the market. I just received an email from one of the heavyweights at Laticrete International. They are announcing (among other products) their new Laticrete 125 Sound & Crack Adhesive. It is super flexible and made with rubber to help absorb movement and contains fancy Lexan fibers for strength. This is State-Of-The-Art stuff and you are in on ground-breaking announcement. You may have to sell a kidney to afford it but it will likely be worth the extra cost knowing those guys.


Last edited by Bud Cline; 02-16-2010 at 04:16 PM.
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