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Old 07-01-2010, 01:24 PM   #1
BJM
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???


Hello, I'm an avid DIY'er new to this forum but have never done tiling before and need to get this right. I'm going to tile my kitchen back splash with this product:

http://www.everyfloor.com/tesoro_pie...saic-tile.html

made out of 3/8" high X 3/4" wide marble stones all glued to a fabric mesh backing. 40 tiles of it are currently sitting in my garage.

So I go to Lowe's to buy some mastic, which I've read is OK for a back splash if nothing else, and read the following on the side of the TEC Invision adhesive:

"Not for use with green marble, or to install resin backed marble
or resin backed aggregate marble."

Does the product I have sitting in my garage classify as "resin backed aggregate marble" which I keep reading needs to be set in epoxy or is that referring to a different kind of tile like what can be seen here:

http://www.allproducts.com/manufactu...wu/tws-02.html

or here:

http://www.aldonchem.com/mt-agglomerates.htm

If not, am I OK with this mastic or maybe a different brand mastic? If not mastic then what? The whole back side of the tile is basically a thin layer of glue (like from a hot glue gun) completely isolating the stone.

My main concern is excellent grab so these heavy 12" X 12" tiles lay flat on the wall as I install them and then stay that way. It is my understanding that mastic gives a better grab than thin set and is why I want to go that route, not to mention the ease of the premix.

I've thought about about just running a few lines of a Liquid Nails product on the back but am unsure about that approach as well. Need something that I can just pick up at Lowe's or Home Depot this weekend and get this job done.

Any informed advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brent

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Old 07-02-2010, 03:58 PM   #2
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???


Quote:
It is my understanding that mastic gives a better grab than thin set and is why I want to go that route, not to mention the ease of the premix.
WHERE in the world did you get that information? You've been to "Ask This Old House" haven't you? Nothing could be more incorrect!

First thing you should do is get a slab of your tile and sprinkle some water on the back/glue-side of the slab. After a minute or two rub your finger on the wet glue. Tell us if the glue becomes really sticky/tacky and soft and rubs off or easily transfers on your finger.

We'll go from there.

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Old 07-02-2010, 09:40 PM   #3
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???


Hi Bud. I was hoping you would respond. I see you all over this forum and I'm pretty sure I saw your name on others as well!

I put some water on the back and the glue turns white within 2 minutes. Hopefully I've attached the picture I took correctly. If I rub my finger on it the water that gets on my finger looks a little milky. The glue does not really come loose but if I scratch on it hard enough it does start to gum up a little leaving little loose fragments. After being wet for about 15 minutes with the water a good deal evaporated I noticed it is slightly more tacky/sticky than the dry glue but not by much.

I was surprised to see that the water made it all the way through to the front of the stone so both the glue and the stone are probably porous enough to allow good air through for drying the adhesive. There are gaps between all the stone pieces for sure.

Hopefully this is enough info to suggest what I should use to apply it with.

I don't know where I read mastic had better grab but it seemed to be in a couple of places. I also already knew you are anti-mastic

I will use thin set mortar if I must but would prefer not to if I don't have to. Due to the interlocking nature of this material I will have to stop many times to get it to fit right and do not plan on spreading much adhesive at one time. Thin set would mean multiple mixing sessions!

Also, I want to put this right onto painted drywall that has a knock down texture. I'm unsure weather to smooth it down first with whatever I end up using, filling in the low spots and letting it dry first, or just to sand it real good and apply whatever I use with the notched trowel. Any advice on that would also be appreciated.

I'm still also seriously considering the Liquid Nails idea.

Hoping to start applying tile tomorrow sometime so hoping you can get back to me soon.

Thanks!
Brent
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:57 PM   #4
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???


OK, Good Deal! That picture says everything I needed to know.

That's actually a pretty friendly adhesive they used on those tiles. It is water vulnerable but not water soluble, that's a good thing.

I'm not down on mastic or "anti-mastic". Mastic has its place but this isn't it.

I would use a white modified thinset mortar. You'll have plenty of time to work with it. It will activate the adhesive on the tile long enough for the mortar to migrate into the adhesive then it will turn around and begin to dry along with the thinset.

I would also use a 1/8" X 1/8" or at most a 3/16" X 3/16" square notched trowel to apply the thinset to the wall.

The textured wall is actually a plus so I wouldn't fill the low spots, they actually provide you with a greater bonding surface. I would however scuff the high spots with some sandpaper but it won't take a lot of scuffing. You'll be fine.

If the thinset begins to tighten up in the bucket just remix it without adding any more water and it will re-temper itself back to its original viscosity. Not to worry.

If once you have some on the wall that overruns the area beyond the tile application (as you go) just scrape it off if you can't get it covered up before it glazes over. Just be sure the thinset is tacking to the back of the sheet with every sheet applied. Spread the thinset, apply the sheet, then lift it away to be sure it is tacking with the thinset and not compressing the thinset. You'll see what I mean when you get started.

Don't do the Liquid Nails, you have loose tiles everywhere.

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By the way...
Those trowels can be found in the wood flooring department of any major home center, you probably won't find them in the tile department. They are used for spreading glue for wood floors.
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Old 07-03-2010, 06:32 PM   #5
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???


Great! Thanks for the quick reply. Been busy all morning cutting some granite tiles and putting them in my garden window sill. I will follow all your advice. Off to get some thin set. Just hope it has great initial grab. These are pretty flexible and I'm worried that the the top of the tile will pull loose before the thin set sets up. Will probably be OK.

I will post a pic when it's done!

Thanks again!
Brent
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Just hope it has great initial grab.
Whooooah! Hold On! Thinset typically does not have "great initial grab"! It doesn't need to. It will hold your tile mats to the wall just fine but you may have to use a spacer or two to keep it from creeping down the wall if there is to be a gap or grout line below the mat.

The flexibility of the mats won't matter, you are overthinking this process maybe.
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:42 AM   #7
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Ya, all I need it to do is hold the whole tile to the wall. I'm only doing 1 and 1/2 rows. The bottom row will rest on the counter top then the other row on top of that with this 1 and 1/4" border piece in between. I'm not worried about it creeping down the wall but the tile is very flexible and heavy so will want to pull away at the top. Like you say, it will probably be fine.

I didn't get any of it on the wall this weekend. It's going to take me awhile to get it all cut the way I want first. I want the tiles to interlock perfectly which means I have to grind down the stones on each row individually to get the tiles as close as possible so you can't tell that two of them are sliced together. Slow process. Plus they sent me a bunch of poor quality product. It's like putting a puzzle together and trying to find like pieces that go together well.

I did set some 4x4 tiles that go behind the stove with the thin set. That went fine.
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:52 AM   #8
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???


Got it all done. Turned out AWESOME! Thank you Bud for your advice. Used Laticrete Multipurpose Pro modified white thin set with a 3/16" X 5/32" V-notch trowel (couldn't find either size square notch that you mentioned). The initial hold was plenty sufficient.

Pics attached!

Here's the whole remodel from my facebook album for anyone interested:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=63885&id=1342190698&l=d586113f6f

Brent
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???-r7-22-10-183.jpg   Resin backed aggregate marble or ???-r7-22-10-184.jpg   Resin backed aggregate marble or ???-rpicture-015.jpg   Resin backed aggregate marble or ???-rpicture-040.jpg   Resin backed aggregate marble or ???-rpicture-041.jpg  

Resin backed aggregate marble or ???-rimg_3202.jpg  
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:04 AM   #9
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Resin backed aggregate marble or ???


WOW! Lookin Good!

The last picture looks like something out of a decorating magazine.

Good Job!

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