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Old 04-30-2013, 04:48 PM   #1
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New shower. Durock,Kerdi, Porcelain Tile.


Hello all,
Just stepped into a small disaster of a remodel. Shower was stripped to the studs. Studs replaced as needed with PT 2x4. Plastic vapor barrier hung over studs of both exterior wall and interior wall. 1/2" Durock hung with Drywall Screws and joints taped with 2" mesh and compound. Rock hung vertical on both walls so horizontal joints are above 8'. Shower floor is a 5" drop below finish floor. Floor cut for Linear drain that has Kerdi membrane attached to it. Have removed and cleaned all compound and tape and getting ready to replace screws. New taping will done according to USG instructions. Tile will be 12x24 Porcelain. Floor is river stone on 12"mesh.
What thin set will work best for Porcelain over Durock? Kerdi around drain is 6"x35" and will come up over lip of floor.
I would like to use same holes for fastener. Screws or Nails?
What other considerations do I need to address?
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:34 PM   #2
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New shower. Durock,Kerdi, Porcelain Tile.


That was a lot of description---

I have some questions before I can be of help---

Why did you use pressure treated 2x4s? They are wet and will shrink and likely move as they dry--

Why a plastic vapor barrier? If you are waterproofing the face of the board it is not needed and may be harmful--

You said you have a Schluter drain set, but did not mention how you are waterproofing the concrete floor---concrete is not waterproof--nor is the Durrock and both are typically water proofed in a shower

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Old 04-30-2013, 06:14 PM   #3
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New shower. Durock,Kerdi, Porcelain Tile.


Thanks for the reply,
As I mentioned, I "stepped" into this. Rock was already hung. History came from the owner. The PT was dried for several months prior to the rock being hung. I stripped the tape and compound and am getting ready to replace the drywall screws.

I want to do this correctly so I need advice on where to go from here. Kerdi will be set as per their instructions but all my research says to use a modified thin set for the tile. There is not a lot of kerdi to be covered by the tile.

The shower floor is below finished grade. Does it need to be waterproofed? If it overflowed it would flood the house.

The rock can come down and sheet plastic removed if needed.

Last edited by Johnmcm1; 04-30-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:39 PM   #4
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New shower. Durock,Kerdi, Porcelain Tile.


I would not remove the rock --the double vapor barrier is not good, but seldom causes trouble if the shower is waterproofed thoroughly--

There are several ways to waterproof a shower----the kerdi is one of the best---However, I have never used it----Jaz and several other members will have to walk you through that---

I use Hydroban by Latacrete for installations like yours---that is a paint on surface membrane---
I trust it and use it for pans and walls---go to their web site for videos----

Also---do a flood test before tiling-----best to see if you have trouble before tiling---
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:43 AM   #5
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New shower. Durock,Kerdi, Porcelain Tile.


The fasteners would have been ok if they were already taped with cement. You say "compound" so I guess you mean drywall compound then that's the issue as that stuff will not like being wet. A cement board screw has the threads that are good and sharp, a head that's a bit wider yet thinner so it doesn't have to compress much material to get it flush and it should tolerate getting a little bit moist. If you decide to replace fasteners then you do not need to use the same holes. Just push some cement in the old holes when you are doing the taping. The cement board is a bit brittle so the existing screw holes may not be in great shape if the drywall screws crushed the board a bit.

Vapour barrier on interior walls can be removed if it's easy to do. If the previous work was not done well then I would expect the vapour barrier is also poorly installed so it's not likely actually sealed too well so it might not be important to remove and likely won't be a big deal unless your waterproofing inside the shower fails.


Pressure treated lumber on interior walls, that is fine. It's a little odd, they sell interior wood that is treated and usually tinted pink or blue with better fire, insect, and mold resistance if they were concerned about that stuff. The stuff you use on exterior is just a waste of money because if it's getting wet enough to have become rotted then something else wasn't done properly. There is no problem at all with using it. It will be encapsulated inside the wall so it's not going to be touching anything where the chemical treatments will be any concern. Just don't go make cabinets or a counter top out of the stuff.

If doing a more traditional mud bed on the floor or the kerdi shower system pan it needs to be completely water tight. Just make sure to get all those corners and seams sealed up properly and do that test by plugging the drain and filling the floor pan overnight to see if you have leaks before you move to the tiling This needs to be completely water tight to a few inches above the drain even if it's below grade. You want the water flowing into the drain and nowhere else. You also do not want ground water to enter from underneath if it's below grade. Your shower shouldn't double as a sump pit. Make sure you have gravel for drainage under the slab to send that ground water away to the weeping / sump system.

Sounds like someone was trying to do a good job but just didn't have the knowledge or ability to do their research to get things done right. Did the person who started this builds decks and sheds for a living instead of bathrooms?
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:33 AM   #6
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New shower. Durock,Kerdi, Porcelain Tile.


Thanks Queball. The other guy was well intentioned, just not well read.

I'll feel better if I remove most, if not all of the plastic sheeting. Mike put me on to a water proofing product that seems to be within budget. I have enough Kerdi for the floor pan and will use Hydroban for the walls. I'll most definitely do the flood test.

Are there any issues with the PT studs being in contact with the copper pipes?

I read somewhere there is a significant difference in fibered tapping products for Durock but can't find where I read it. Is it OK to use the generic stuff?
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:10 AM   #7
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New shower. Durock,Kerdi, Porcelain Tile.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnmcm1 View Post
Thanks Queball. The other guy was well intentioned, just not well read.

I'll feel better if I remove most, if not all of the plastic sheeting. Mike put me on to a water proofing product that seems to be within budget. I have enough Kerdi for the floor pan and will use Hydroban for the walls. I'll most definitely do the flood test.

Are there any issues with the PT studs being in contact with the copper pipes?

I read somewhere there is a significant difference in fibered tapping products for Durock but can't find where I read it. Is it OK to use the generic stuff?
Most of the pressure treating is done with a copper based solution. I do not know of any problems with copper pipes touching it. I found some discussions of people suggesting you could put some kind of a gasket around the hole if you were worried about it but unless my chemistry teacher was wrong you shouldn't have a problem at least not before the pipes wear out naturally from 50 years of minerals in your water supply as it flows through.

For the tape, fibre mesh tape is good as long as the fibre is fibre glass. Paper or any other organic tape is bad. The tape just provides a little structure for the cement across the gaps. Like little miniature strands of rebar.

The official specs and guide for durock (RTFM):
http://www.usg.com/rc/system-catalog...e-en-SA932.pdf

This calls for "Alkali-resistant glass-fiber tape"
So it's nothing too special.

If you were using Hardie Backer their guide is here:
http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner...install-us.pdf
Also calls for "2 wide high-strength alkali-resistant glass fiber tape"

If you were starting over from scratch I don't even bother with the cement board. I prefer to use Kerdi board now, its just so much easier (but expensive).

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