New Kitchen Floor Going In, Deciding On A Backboard/underlay For Ceramic Tile - Tiling, ceramics, marble - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


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Old 03-04-2012, 05:01 PM   #1
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


Hello everyone,

i've got an old house ( built 1922) Kitchen was in need of a remake so we have gutted it down to the bare plaster walls and pulled up the old tile.
(ceramic tile on top of ceramic tile on top of lanolium tile on top of thin plywood on top of the plank hardwood subfloor )

Luckily, the floor is pretty level, only a slight raise in the middle of the floor ( gradual change of about 1/2 " ) so not too hard to work out.

Now we have pulled it all up.. and need to prepare for new tile to go in.

the question I have is what backing board/underlay is appropriate here? Some of the guys I've talked to have said cement backerboard, others 1/2" plywood with a waterproof sealant...

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions. Budget/price is as always something we want to be mindful of but primary focus is doing it right and to last.

Thanks!

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Old 03-04-2012, 05:09 PM   #2
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


Are you leaving the plank or removing it?

Todd
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:15 PM   #3
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[quote=Tech Dawg;870276]Are you leaving the plank or removing it?

Leaving it.
It is in good condition and does not wobble or have gaps.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:51 PM   #4
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


If floor height is not a restriction, I would screw down, 3/4" BC plywood and top that off with something like Ditra or Noble Seal TS (membrane)

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Old 03-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #5
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


I've found this, that seems to apply to my needs:
http://i.imgur.com/mPHPK.png

a decent illustration.. and from what you have said it seems that is the best option.

Now the question I have is, Why not use the decoupling right on top of the plant subfloor? , is it for stability? preventing movement? leveling? a bit of all of these? ( or ease of removal afterwards? )

tiling on top of plywood without the use of decoupling would be bad?

I suspect it adds stability to prevent cracking and ensures a firm hold...
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:48 PM   #6
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


Your basically adding a subfloor. CBU or membranes are a no-no for applying right to a plank floor. If your tiling over plywood then you'd need 2 layers. The first is screwed through the planks to the joists. The second is screwed to the ply(not in joists) and the top seams have to have a gap to be siliconed.
Tile over ply is tricky and not done very often anymore and CBU doesn't add any structural support, just height and weight.

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Old 03-04-2012, 08:01 PM   #7
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


I've found an alternate to the DITRA called Protegga it is nearly 1/2 the price but visually the same.
spent the last hour searching for reviews and examples and called a few places that sell both. Seems to be a good alternate for a budget.

Any input on that?
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efciem
I've found an alternate to the DITRA called Protegga it is nearly 1/2 the price but visually the same.
spent the last hour searching for reviews and examples and called a few places that sell both. Seems to be a good alternate for a budget.

Any input on that?
I've never used that product and haven't seen it around town. You may also be able to find Customs SpiderWeb mat at a local Home Depot. I know quite a few pro's that use it with no problems

Todd
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #9
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


Ok taking your advice and advice of the tile place we purchased our tile from... we have done the following:

Put a 1/2 in plywood down on top of our subfloor.

Purchased DITRA to cover the floor.

The tile place supplied us with the Tile, The DITRA and the Thin-Set mortar.
The mortar they advised us to purchase for use in both under and on top of the DITRA is : Kiesel CervoFlex-Trio-Supertec Thin-set.

Is this the right stuff? a second opinion is always good before going into action.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:49 AM   #10
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Decided to call the manufacturer of Kiesel CervoFlex ( In Germany ) They said while the TRIO SERVOFLEX GREY THINSET is a modified thinset , it uses glass elements instead of plastic to ensure a firm bond to the top of the DITRA similar to that of unmodified thinset but with the added benefit of being able to support larger tiles and slabs (like my 18x18 tile) without the sagging.

So , while DITRA site says "Modified Thin-set " for bonding DITRA to the plywood... and UNMODIFIED Thin-set for bonding the Tile to the DITRA surface... This particular mortar ( TRIO SERVOFLEX GREY THINSET ) Is ideal for both as it does NOT use plastic compounds that might not adhere to the DITRA.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:26 PM   #11
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New kitchen floor going in, deciding on a backboard/underlay for ceramic tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by efciem
Decided to call the manufacturer of Kiesel CervoFlex ( In Germany ) They said while the TRIO SERVOFLEX GREY THINSET is a modified thinset , it uses glass elements instead of plastic to ensure a firm bond to the top of the DITRA similar to that of unmodified thinset but with the added benefit of being able to support larger tiles and slabs (like my 18x18 tile) without the sagging.

So , while DITRA site says "Modified Thin-set " for bonding DITRA to the plywood... and UNMODIFIED Thin-set for bonding the Tile to the DITRA surface... This particular mortar ( TRIO SERVOFLEX GREY THINSET ) Is ideal for both as it does NOT use plastic compounds that might not adhere to the DITRA.
You should use a modified thinset to embed the Ditra to the plywood. Then use a premium unmodified thinset to set the tile. I never heard of that company but if they say that you can use their modified thinset with Ditra, then you should get that in writing from them with their backed warranty. If that company makes grout then you should use their brand to have a complete install of their product line.

Todd
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