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Old 06-12-2011, 02:45 PM   #16
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major cracks in compound-Hollys tile job


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The cracks are fine, it's from the shrinkage that happened as the water evaporated from the compound. Just keep coating it.

I wouldn't worry about it now.

It's done now I wouldn't worry too much about it.

...you can get a waterproof sealer to apply over the top of the mud before you tile to remedy the problem.
I couldn't disagree with all that more. What you have done is not going to work for long. Even coating with a waterproofing product won't be the answer. The waterproofing won't stick to the drywall compound it will just peel off. If you do get tile on the waterproofing, in time the humidity and weight of the tile will cause the tile attached to the waterproofing to de-laminate.

This project is sunk at this point unless all of the drywall compound is removed and re-done with thinset mortar.

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Old 06-12-2011, 02:50 PM   #17
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I couldn't disagree with all that more. What you have done is not going to work for long. Even coating with a waterproofing product won't be the answer. The waterproofing won't stick to the drywall compound it will just peel off. If you do get tile on the waterproofing, in time the humidity and weight of the tile will cause the tile attached to the waterproofing to de-laminate.

This project is sunk at this point unless all of the drywall compound is removed and re-done with thinset mortar.
Yes, what you suggest is best, however I disagree with your comments on the waterproofing. If he uses the right product it will have no problem sticking to the mud, on top of this, if everything is sealed properly humidy will not be a problem.

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Old 06-12-2011, 02:52 PM   #18
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....and what about the humidity that develops inside the walls and comes from behind the waterproofing products?
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:05 PM   #19
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Well... I suppose that would depend on where you live. Here when I renovated our upstairs shower the 40 year old drywall (and wood) was as dry as it could ever be.

Look, I understand what you are saying and you are right. However they do make that waterproofing product just for this reason. If it really was a problem the high quality builders I work for would never use it. By the way, normally they don't because we know better than to completely tape out behind tile.

Which reminds me actually... you are right, don't get me wrong, but typically in the 1000 units we do per year there is drywall compound at least a foot into the shower behind the tile. Never a problem.

If the guy wants to spend his time wetting and scraping off that mud, then yes your advice is better. However I myself might be inclined to just say screw it, water proof it and tile it. But then again, i would have NEVER of done that to begin with. I also wouldn't have used cement board, I'd have used vinyl faced tile backer.

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Old 06-12-2011, 03:34 PM   #20
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thanks everyone for the responses!!
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:00 PM   #21
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Ok...so I hung the cement board inside the bathtub area...I'm assuming that is correct. Then I put on the cement board tape to cover the joints. Also assuming this was correct. Now it sounds like this is where my oops started.

It was recommended by the folks at Home Depot, where I bought the cement board and drywall to get this All Purpose Joint Compond. They said that all I had to do was put this on the joints let it dry, sand, put on another coat and sand again then I could start the tiling process.

Yesterday I went back to Home Depot to pick out the tile and everything to install it. This included a product called FlexBond Crack Prevention Mortar.

I was under the impression that I had to put something over the cement board tape before I started to apply to mortar...was my assumption wrong? From what I'm reading it sounds like I can just use the FlexBond Crack Prevention Mortar. Would this be a correct assumption?
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:10 PM   #22
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Yes, you would have been better to use the thinset/mortar to bond the fibre tape to the cement board.
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:12 PM   #23
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This 'flexbond mortar' is it a powdered thinset or a mastic in a bucket?
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:13 PM   #24
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Why would you not have used the cement board?
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:14 PM   #25
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it's powdered
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:14 PM   #26
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I'm really hoping I have not totally screwed this project up!!
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:39 PM   #27
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Relax---The drywall mud on the rock was a mistake--but you can scrape that off--wash off as much as you can and move forward.

Typical tile install--the seams are covered with tilers mesh while you tile.
Tilers mesh looks like drywall mesh but will not be affected by the lime in the cement like drywall mesh.

"Mud" What Is It? - Kitchen & Bath Remodeling - DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum

Go to the 'tile' section and look for a post by Bud Cline 'preparing a wall for tile'

I like to waterproof the board before tiling--this is not essential,but for $50 to $100 it will insure that no water leaves the shower.

There are many ways to accomplish this---for a tub I suggest you look at the brush on membranes.

My first choice is Hydroban by Latacrete--the other is Red Guard by Custom.

Both are applied with a brush and roller.

Look at some of the threads in the tile section--pay special attention to posts by Jazman and Bud Cline.

Both know their stuff and explain things well.

I'm no dummy myself---but tend to be brief with my answers.---Mike---
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:46 PM   #28
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Why would you not have used the cement board?

I like the board that you chose--you are fine.

In the last few years many new 'cutting edge' products have hit the market.

You did well--tried and true beats 'cutting edge' for you.

Come on and smile again---you are fine we will walk you right through this.--Mike---
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:06 PM   #29
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wow!!! this blog was very insightful

http://www.diychatroom.com/blogs/con...wer-walls-152/
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:09 PM   #30
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It was recommended by the folks at Home Depot, where I bought the cement board and drywall to get this All Purpose Joint Compond.
THAT right there is just plain and simple BAD INFORMATION. Home Depot isle-walkers are known for dispensing BAD INFORMATION. All purpose joint compound IS NOT SUITABLE for use in a shower wall installation. It will melt when it gets wet.

Here's the thing Holly. You are (as others are) under the supposition that ceramic tile and grout create a waterproof condition. THEY DO NOT. Those walls are not water proof. Allow me to repeat that statement. Ceramic tile and grout on shower walls ARE NOT WATERPROOF.

Moisture will penetrate the grout and get into the substrate and behind the tiles. If joint compound is there waiting it is only a matter of time before things begin to fail.

In most cases where a bathroom wall transitions to a shower wall there is usually some joint compound existing on the joint between the cement board and the drywall. That also is a mistake but it does pass because that area of transition doesn't see as much moisture as the main field of the rest of the shower walls. In addition there is typically a shower door hung at that point which can hold the tile to the substrate.

The crack prevention mortar ALSO IS NOT WATERPROOF. Thinset tile mortar IS NOT WATERPROOF. It is not effected by moisture and will retain a bond for the life of the structure but IT IS NOT WATERPROOF.

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I was under the impression that I had to put something over the cement board tape before I started to apply to mortar...was my assumption wrong?
If you had applied the tape then began the tile installation you would have been putting the correct product over the tape but you didn't do that. That thinset will not want to bond to the joint compound either. It will for a time until more and more moisture is added to the mix on a daily basis then I would suggest you shower while wearing a hard hat and your army boots.

I suggest you buy some liquid waterproofing and paint it on an area you have filled with joint compound. Then go back the next day see how easy the waterproofing product peels away from the joint compound. It will not bond suitably.

The thing to do at this point is to get the joint compound wet. Spray it with water, let it sit for a few minutes and then scrape it off. It will come off very easily. That right there is testimony to what I am trying to tell you. But more-so it is the way to fix this fiasco.

No where in any of the industry tiling standards and recommendations does it say what you have done and what you were directed to do by Home Depot is acceptable. NO WHERE! In fact Home Depot should pay you for your time to fix their screw up. I would ***** at them and agree to take home a FREE bucket of Redgard waterproofing as a settlement.

Keep in mind that most of the experts you talk to and ask advice from at Home Depot where two weeks ago asking you if you wanted to super-size your meal at a fast food restaurant. Don't ask those guys any questions. They don't know the answers and don't think for a minute that Home Depot gives those guys any kind of specialized training because I can assure you they do not.

Okay, I'm done arguing with everyone. I am going to take my thirty-five years of experience in installing tile and quietly go away.

You have been warned. By the way...did you want fries with your order.

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Last edited by Bud Cline; 06-12-2011 at 05:12 PM.
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