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Old 09-09-2009, 04:20 PM   #1
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Hi all, for being not think ahead too much, I now got a headache...

We recently installed some 5/16" hardwood flooring in our first floor, looks very very nice. When we installed it, we nail it down directly to the subfloor (3/4" T&G ply) because it will be flush with the kitchen and half bath area, which has vinyl over 3/8" particle board. Now all the hardwood is done and when we look back to the kitchen vinyl, it seems a bit outdated and we want to replace it with new tiles. Here is where the problem started...

I read and did some research these couple days and know that, for tiles, we need a good 1 1/4" of subfloor. Or at a minimum, 1/4" cement board over our 3/4" plywood. Simple math let me know that if I even do the minimum suggested, I will have the kitchen and bath area 1/4" higher then our wood floor. Which I kinda don't like, I like to have a flush looking floor, I really hate the height difference in 1 open area.

I know I should have think ahead and install a 1/4" ply under the hardwood so now the problem will go away, but I didn't... So my first question is, is it really really bad to install the tile right over my 3/4" ply subfloor? I know my floor is solid, no squeak no nothing, 1994 house with 16" spacing joist. Also, my wife and I are not heavy and we don't run around the kitchen like crazy. I assume the worst it can happen is a lot of cracks in the grout? So are there any grout on the market that is a bit forgiving, that will not crack as bad? Maybe something like caulk but a bit harder? Or maybe I should just slap myself in the head and just take that 1/4" difference in height? I know I am going to be OCD and looking at the floor everytime I walk over it.

Please give me some good suggestion or advice and call me a stupid amateur.
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:40 PM   #2
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Help with tile on subfloor please


OK, here's the deal!!!

Your vinyl floor SHOULD be installed over a 1/4" underlayment that would have been a part of the vinyl installation. Remove that 1/4" underlayment when you remove the vinyl and you'll be real close to matching your elevations.:0

If you find this is not the case let us know and we'll see what we can come up with.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:31 PM   #3
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Negative, as I mentioned, there's a 3/8" particle board under the vinyl. If I remove the vinyl and the underlayment, I will get to the 3/4" subfloor. I have attached a picture, as you can see, the wood floor is on the black felt. On the other side, the vinyl is on top of a 3/8" particle board.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:06 PM   #4
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Help with tile on subfloor please


OK......so remove the 3/8 and go from there.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:49 PM   #5
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Hi

Myself I'm going from vinyl to 13x13 Porcelain tile in the Bathroom

I had 5/8's OSB and butch job of 1/4(we Had mold) anyways

Myself like you had it in my Head that 3/4 T&G Was Min

Now I had planned on using a Product called Schluter Ditra with my Tile Install.

http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

Then I got thinking about the Height of my Carpet if I did all this

-3/4 T&G Plywood
-Thinset
-Ditra
-Thinset
-13x13 Tile

I got to talk to the owner and he said 5/8's was fine for under the Ditra seeing that I had 16" OC and 2x8 joist.

Also said if I was using a 20x20 tile then 3/4 would need to be used

He said let Ditra do the work,as long as the floor is sturdy

This was from the Owners Mouth

So I'm installing 5/8's T&G Plywood and I'm gluing and screwing it as I Ripped the old OSB up.

Now I was thinking you could use Ditra XL over that 3/8, BTW you sure it's not 5/8's I thought my house was built bad

then you would be level with the new Hardwood flooring you have and have a new Tile floor that would not crack and save a lot of extra work.

just my $0.2
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:53 PM   #6
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Somebody better check some DITRA specs. Are you sure the 5/8" is acceptable on 8" joists?
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:19 PM   #7
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Somebody better check some DITRA specs. Are you sure the 5/8" is acceptable on 8" joists?
BINGO!!!


Look at the Hand Book too

http://www.schluter.com/media/brochures/DitraHandbook-2008-ENG.pdf
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:09 AM   #8
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Thank you all for help, I was thinking Ditra when I was doing more research, it seems like it will fit my application.

But yeah, I have 3/8" particle board, not 5/8", which my kitchen floor goes like this:

Vinyl
3/8" Particle board
3/4" T&G plywood
Joist

I will probably go get a roll of Ditra after I finish with my kitchen countertop and backsplash, they only sell in 3xx sq ft roll, so I might end up doing all bathroom and laundary room, going to be fun...
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Old 09-24-2009, 05:40 PM   #9
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddmnkf View Post
Thank you all for help, I was thinking Ditra when I was doing more research, it seems like it will fit my application.

But yeah, I have 3/8" particle board, not 5/8", which my kitchen floor goes like this:

Vinyl
3/8" Particle board
3/4" T&G plywood
Joist

I will probably go get a roll of Ditra after I finish with my kitchen countertop and backsplash, they only sell in 3xx sq ft roll, so I might end up doing all bathroom and laundary room, going to be fun...
I would remove the 3/8 Particle board since you already have 3/4 under
that.

Then just use XL Ditra or Regular Ditra

You can buy Ditra off the roll,It's $1.41 a S.Q F.T here in CDN

Is about 39" Wide O Yes 39" wide
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Old 09-24-2009, 05:46 PM   #10
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Help with tile on subfloor please


You need to read the Ditra web site literature carefully. The amount of subfloor you need depends on the size of tile, and type of tile. For large format porcelain (16x16 inch), you need as I recall a minimum of 3/4 inch plywood PLUS 5/8 OSB or plywood over it. We put in a stone tile floor, using Ditra, 16 inch OC joists, and we had 3/4 inch pine boards under 5/8 inch plywood. Worked well.
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:01 PM   #11
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Help with tile on subfloor please


I will pretty much re-read everything when I start ripping the floor apart, thanks.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:21 PM   #12
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Help with tile on subfloor please


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
You need to read the Ditra web site literature carefully. The amount of subfloor you need depends on the size of tile, and type of tile. For large format porcelain (16x16 inch), you need as I recall a minimum of 3/4 inch plywood PLUS 5/8 OSB or plywood over it. We put in a stone tile floor, using Ditra, 16 inch OC joists, and we had 3/4 inch pine boards under 5/8 inch plywood. Worked well.
Can you tell me what Page in the Hand Book it talks about Tile Size??? and flooring thickness???

I have the 2008 Book here
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