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Old 02-21-2014, 06:06 AM   #1
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getting it right


The time has come to actually get that porcelain tile into the kitchen. Lets see how much Info I've retained from reading about others . Baby steps please as I've never been involved in a tile job.

joists span 12 feet from bearing wall to bearing wall. They are 12 inches OC.

The subfloor is 5/8 OSB. It currently has vinyl and then hardwood.

The whole thing is fairly bouncy and considerably higher then the adjoining rms. Although the hardwood flows into the other room there is a transition strip.

Step 1 Rip it all out. Tighten the osb to the joists with additional screws.

step 2 Add plywood for strength, but screw to subfloor and not joists

step 3 Place in a bed of thinset, either cement board or other underlayment

step 4 warming mat.

That's enough steps for now. Please add in corrections as necessary

First complication : the hardwood has a few damaged strips, so for investigative purposes I tried to slice out a small square of the vinyl underneath. With considerable difficulty, only the thinnest top layer of it could be removed and a somewhat crumbly, powdery grey interior was revealed. How the heck am I do get an entire floor of this lifted AND is it necessary outside of the height difference it adds.

Thanks ALL.

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Old 02-21-2014, 06:53 AM   #2
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I'm not the expert.....but I know my experience with OSB.....not the best stuff for a floor.

I'm wondering if it would not be easier overall to pull the lower cabinets and then pull up all the OSB. Cutting the OSB at the cabinets is not going to do much for you in total strength.

Pulling the lower cabinets lets you replace the entire floor....and pulling up the OSB would pull up the vinyl as well...might end up being a wash labor wise.

Then put down real plywood...say 3/4" or even 1 1/8" T&G?

I used 1 1/8" T&G upstairs....OMG.....it's about par to walking on concrete....NO bounce.

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Old 02-21-2014, 06:54 AM   #3
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A little more info needed --the joists? what size? 2x 8--2x10--2x12?

Actual size is 3/4" smaller--a 2x12 is actually 1 1/2" x 11 1/4"

5/8 OSB or plywood is a little thin---and needs 1/2" BC plywood over that--

What you wish to use for heating determines the installation---coils usually go over the ply and are encapsulated in self leveling compound--tile is set on the self leveling compound.

Heat mat typically is installed over 1/4" Durrock--thinset--press in the mat--then ,either bury it under self leveling compound--or just thinset and set the tile---
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:08 AM   #4
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Dawg: Thanks for the suggestion but no way is that happening

Mike: Joists are 2x8. Vinyl is 80's. Should I add ply over it. I will be getting the heat mat I think, but I have no reason for chosing it over coils that I can think of.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:21 AM   #5
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deflection is 402---safe for tile---not good for natural stone--360 is minimum for tile--720 for stone.

Remove the hardwood---best to peal off the old sheet vinyl--(to should have 1/4" underlayment,if so pull that out ,too)--but if it is firmly set over the original subfloor---you could leave it--overlay with 1/2" BC ply--nailed or stapled with small crown staples (rent a gun and compressor?)

Then you are ready for the steps above----Mike---
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:34 AM   #6
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How about this stuff..should I use this ??

http://www.lowes.ca/backer-board-cem...1835.html#aRvw
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:45 AM   #7
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'80's vinyl over 5/8" OSB, hard to believe. Creeper, are you positive? Can you investigate closely if you haven't done that yet. Where is this house? I assume it was built in the '80's.

My money says you're in Canada.

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Old 02-21-2014, 11:55 AM   #8
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You're correct Jaz...Ontario to be exact

In fact that is the reason I tried to cut away a small square of the vinyl..to see what if anything it sat on. I am not the original owner.

Here is a picture inside the heating vent. I will send another for comparative value of the next room. For certain that room is hardwood right on the OSB
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:05 PM   #9
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This from the next room
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:33 PM   #10
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Just as I thought and how it should be.

Do you see the 1/4" ply, (probably luan)? There might even be 2 layers. Remove the hardwood, then the 1/4" underlayment with the vinyl attached. You may need to cut it into narrow strips.

Can you read the bottom side of the OSB? Report back. I still can't believe it's only 19/32' thick. If so, cheap ass builder, and how did the inspector let it go?

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Old 02-21-2014, 12:48 PM   #11
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I can't account for the builder, but for sure the inspector missed a LOT of defects. Its one of the reasons as a Realtor I never recommend any of them. I usually advise hiring a trusted contractor.

I never loved the layout of this home anyway. I bought it for the area, backyard and urgency of my situation at the time. Low inventory in the area was a big factor.

Just trying to hate my kitchen a little less..
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:11 PM   #12
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Jaz:
I just checked out the gallery on your tile4you.com site. Lots of beautiful looking installs.

Should I use Ditra?? If so, please place these items in the correct sequence (I did offer an earlier disclaimer of complete newb)

OSB, plywood, thinset, ditra, (durrock...Mike's recommendation to hold the warming mat) more thinset, tiles...

I'm getting confused
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:42 PM   #13
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It's easy to get confused!

Your OSB sub. well fastened and in good condition
1/2" or (?) underlayment grade ply, no cheapo ply
warming mat or wires
self leveling compound
thin set
Ditra
thin set
Tiles.

The above method if using Ditra, which I highly recommend.

You could skip Ditra and use just SLC as Mike mentioned, or tile backer heat mat and then SLC, then tiles etc. depending on your preference.

*** Hot off the wire........

Schluter will introduce Ditra Heat in March. Will be a great item.
http://www.schluter.com/ditra-heat/index.html

Either way, check back for more info on setting materials.

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Old 02-21-2014, 02:07 PM   #14
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Well well this changes things then doesn't it. I was concerned that ,as usual, when the US gets a new product we may see it within 5 years so I called Schulter.

According to them my local lumber yard has an account with Schulter and it will be available for me right away..

So now the order will be:

OSB in good repair
Expensive rather then cheapo ply
Self level compound ( is this still necessary)
thin set
fancy new style warming mat Ditra
thin set
tiles
????

Guys thanks so much for showing patience and hand holding thru this process.
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:24 PM   #15
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Schluter's main North American operations is located in Canada, as you may now know.

Schluter Systems (Canada) Inc.
21100 chemin Ste-Marie
Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC H9X 3Y8

Tel.: 1-800-667-8746

They also have US facilities,

Schluter Systems L.P.
194 Pleasant Ridge Road
Plattsburgh, NY 12901-5841

Tel.: 1-800-472-4588

In this new scenario the SLC may be necessary to make the floor flat. Be sure to prime. Check back for correct types of thin set.

Jaz

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