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Old 05-07-2009, 02:58 PM   #16
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


Jaz are you on the right or the left? Yep I have another tile project to do in the kitchen if the bathroom goes well it all really depends on how the bathroom floor goes because I know that the kitchen floor is going to be MUCH harder to deal with I know there are multiple layers of tile and vinyl and lenolium in there. If I had a better budget I would fly you out here to do the bathroom floor for me. I am going to check out HD to see what they have as far as the ditra goes. I will be taking pics and documenting the bathroom remodel. I think its going to start the second week in June which is not too far off. Thanks again for all the tips and help.

Jenn

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Old 05-07-2009, 03:52 PM   #17
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


Home depot carries a 54 sq ft roll for $83.70 I think it is about 3' wide. Might check with Master Wholesale over there in Seattle. I got my shower system through them, the prices they list on their site is a bit high, but they will take a bid if you can find a lower price somewhere else.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:00 PM   #18
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


DITRA is 39 inches wide - one meter. Actually it's 39.37 inches wide to be exact.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:11 PM   #19
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


I am on the left in pic # 10. http://picasaweb.google.com/tile4you...Coverings2007#

The HD's in my area can't make up their minds on whether to carry Ditra or not. Some carry the small and the 150 ft. rolls, other don't carry any. You're just as likely to find it in the wood laminate aisle, as any where close to where it belongs. One thing for sure, virtually no one there knows what it is used for.

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Old 05-07-2009, 09:33 PM   #20
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


well nice to see your face Jazman! I am going to look for it at HD. Lowes doesn't carry it. I hadn't heard of it ether until I found this website but I recall seeing it before in the store not knowing what it was. you would think that the people at HD would know what it was for and put it on the right isle but then again we know that some in HD don't know what the heck they are doing or talking about half the time. we went in there one time looking for an electric mousetrap (which work fabulously by the way) and no one in the store knew where the mousetraps were. Guess where we found them? in the gardening isle!!!! ummm since when are mice a garden problem?????? anyways I will check on the other flooring isles when I am there getting my supplies. You all have been such a great help. I probably would have glued backerboard to the plywood like I saw on a home improvement show last week lol!!! Just goes to show you don't believe half of what you see on TV!

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Old 05-07-2009, 09:57 PM   #21
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Yup! DITRA here is also in the wood isle. That's where the RedGard was for a long time until I talked with the store manager. One day I asked her why it was with the wood glues and she said that's where corporate pegged it. She also said she wasn't selling any of it and was asking to drop it from her inventory. After our conversation she moved it to the tile isle. They have since had to up their par stock of RedGard to be able to keep it on the shelf.

Home Depot is an amazing amazing place.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:25 PM   #22
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


Yea you can find all kinds of things out of place at HD. Everytime I go in there to get supplies or something I always am saying to myself now why would they stock this here or why would they put that there. I think that places like that should really KNOW their product that they are selling and what its for so that they can help the people that are asking questions.
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:06 PM   #23
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


We used Ditra under the stone tile in our kitchen. It worked exactly as advertised, easy to install, etc. But you have to read the literature carefully to fully understand what its purpose really is.

Whether you use backer board or Ditra, the assumption is that the subfloor is sufficiently strong and rigid to support the tile without flexing so much that the tile cracks. Neither Ditra nor backerboard are designed to add any strength to the subfloor. That is why most of the tile manufacturers recommend that for 16 inch on center joists, you have two layers of subfloor, typically 3/4 inch plywood or OSB, covered with either 5/8 inch or 3/4 inch plywood or OSB. The combination is very rigid, and very strong, and needs no additional strength.

So, assuming you have adequate strength, the purpose of the Ditra is to provide an uncoupling mechanism between the tile and the subfloor. Effectively, the tile is rigidly bonded to the Ditra via thinset (that is what all the depressions in the Ditra is for), but the Ditra is capable of moving independently of the subfloor. If your tiles are rigidly bonded to the subfloor, you can get cracking of the tile if there is differential movement of the subfloor and tile. In climates where the humidity changes significantly over the course of a year, you are going to get substantial movement of the subfloor, with little movement of the tile, so with no uncoupling membrane you risk stress buildup between the wooden subfloor and the tile. Kind of like earthquakes, the stress can get relieved via a crack. Bad news. With the Ditra, the subfloor moves, but the movement does not translate into the tile, and you avoid cracking.

The fact that Ditra is waterproof is a bonus, not its main purpose. Ancient tile technique used a layer of loose sand under the tile as a bond breaker, very effective. Use of relatively weak mortar (full mud set) can also be effective in minimizing cracking, since the mortar can take up most of the subfloor movement. But with the advent of modern, high strength thinset, lack of a bondbreaker invites cracking of the rigid tile. So that is why contractors like Ditra, it minimizes the potential for cracking. But homeowners may not understand what its real purpose is, and may balk at adding $2 per square foot to the job.
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:39 PM   #24
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadfam4 View Post
Ok now I know why I have never seen Holmes on Homes and its because its a Canadian TV show and I am in the US. I looked him up on youtube but there wasnt much to see lots of parodies but few real shows.
Actually, he is broadcast in the US. I think on HGTV as well. I am in Maryland and have seen his show many times and really enjoy it. Check your listings again.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:53 PM   #25
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


Quadfam4;269861]Ok now I know why I have never seen Holmes on Homes and its because its a Canadian TV show and I am in the US. I looked him up on youtube but there wasnt much to see lots of parodies but few real shows.[/quote]

Dear Sir

You have just demonstrated one more example of how fortunate people are to be living in the States....No Mike Holmes (Holmes on Homes)

He is an absolute blow-hard who knows only what the people he features on his shows know.

It is hard to believe that Home Depot uses this feeble-brained person as their Guru.

I have had the misfortune of viewing a couple of episodes of his show and wil never watch it again.

He makes a living out of bellitling/criticizing the work of contractors, while adding nothing beneficial to anyone, whether DIYs or contractors.
The reason he acts this way...One who knows little or nothing bellitles the knowledge and capability of others to give themselves credibility.
And canadians (being what they are) are so gullible as to swallow his idiotic advice.
Count your blessings..
Cheers
Mafarlau

An example...In one of the episodes I watched...
Building a deck...He built the deck frame/joists on the ground. YES on the ground, not off of the, levelled, ledger-board.
Then he had to get 6 men to help him lift it into place and attempt to hold it level while they secured it to the house.
HAve I said enough??
And this is the Home Depot's Guru????????
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Yup! DITRA here is also in the wood isle. That's where the RedGard was for a long time until I talked with the store manager. One day I asked her why it was with the wood glues and she said that's where corporate pegged it. She also said she wasn't selling any of it and was asking to drop it from her inventory. After our conversation she moved it to the tile isle. They have since had to up their par stock of RedGard to be able to keep it on the shelf.

Home Depot is an amazing amazing place.
Oh Boy...You said it.
I worked with Home Depot Canada and can tell you some horror stories.

But concerning the Ditra-mat. The stores I worked in all carried it.
It was kept in with flooring products as it should be. However, when i first asked what it was and what it was used for...the department managers and the store managers, could not tell me. They could only say 'Don't know why we carry it because we never sell any of it' Oh really? Wonder why?
So I researched it myself and informed everyone in the flooring departments and guess what??? YES, it started selling. But a couple of years after I left HD I aksed associates about "this orange stuff" and it was back to square one...Don't know what and don't know why...

Good old HD...It lost it's credibility the moment it strayed from its mission of helping the DIYers. And then strayed even further the moment HD Canada appointed a female as corporate GM..
Then the philosophy was put women in all positions regardless of lack of knowledge...even on the contractors' desk... Good move..
In the one store where I worked (on the contractors' desk) they assigned a woman from the phone center, to the contractors' desk.
No biggie, except that she had zero knowledge of the building trade...Zilch...She had only ever studied book-keeping and wanted to become a CPA. What's a hammer??? What's a lag bolt?

Why did they do that??? Cheaper labour, regardless of the loss of benefit to contractors and DIYers.

HD was originally founded on the basis of hire professionals to assist contractors and DIYers....

Bye-bye Mision.
Bye-bye Philosophy
Hello Mike Holmes...Don't get me started.....

Cheers
Mafarlau
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Old 12-03-2014, 04:14 PM   #27
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


Home depot. I was amused the other day. I've been getting up to speed on membranes and best practices. But in Home depot (canada) the appliances section is almost as large as the tools section.

And the tools section no longer caries stationary tools. You can get a 'contractor's table saw, but not a cabinet base saw. 10" is the biggest bandsaw they carry.

Anyway, I have done two floors, and by everything I've read, neither should have worked. The basic process was the same.

The existing floor was 1/2 of plywood with 7/16 particle board, on 2x12 joists on 12" centres. (May have been my salvation)

I attached 3/4" floor grade T&G OSB, and screwed it down on 6" centres.

I primed the floor with 2 coats of white latex primer, both to reduce water grab from the OSB, and to protect the screw heads from corrosion from the mortar. (Mind you floor grade OSB is nominally rated for 3 months of getting rained on.

One floor is in the laundry room. I tiled directly on the painted OSB, with 1 foot tiles with a 3/16 morter line. In five years of the washer and dryer bouncing on it there are no cracks.

The other floor is a hearth surround for our wood stove. I did that in 1/2" rough face slate. Let it cure for a week, grouted it and then moved the 450 lb stove back on it. For the first month I expect a slate under a leg to crack. 5 years, ok.

We heat primarily with wood, which means the house fluctuates in temperature. It can go from 50 F to 85 F in the space of 6 hours, although most of the time 55 to 75 in a day is typical.

Why is this working?

Theories: 1. OSB is sanded flat, but has sanding tooth. As if sanded with a 40 grit sander. It's coated with something water repellant. No idea what the composition is. I'm sure the paint is mechanically bonded but not clear if it's chemically bonded to the OSB. This forms a weaker bond that can sheer if there is excessive movement.

Theory 2. There is a vast conspiracy on part of the tiling companies to sell more layers of product. (I don't give this one serious credence)

Theory 3. Because of the 12" joist spacing and the now 1 11/16 subfloor, I have a comparatively rigid subfloor, so can get away without a membrane.

Theory 4. I'm doing something that will work 90% of the time. For a DIYer that may be good enough. If I lose a tile, it's a chore to replace, but not the end of the world. A pro can't afford to have 10% of his jobs fail.

Theory 5. Shear dumb luck.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:40 PM   #28
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Do you absolutely have to use Ditra?


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Ancient tile technique used a layer of loose sand under the tile as a bond breaker, very effective.
Interesting, Daniel. Makes perfect sense, but I'd never heard that before.
Of course, until very recently, my experience with tile has strictly been walking on it.

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