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Old 08-27-2009, 12:59 PM   #1
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Ditra question


Ok I really REALLY wanted to use Ditra in my floor tile installation but it looks like I have run into a roadblock! First let me tell you about my floor...... The subfloor is great sturdy and in great condition above that subfloor a nice thick layer of oak hardwood that had to be cut out in some places and replaced by plywood. We didnt want to take all of the hardwood out because it is very stable and in good condition... I am pretty sure you cant apply ditra over hardwood because of the gaps and such but is there something that I can use over the hardwood that would not add too much height to my floor and still be able to use the ditra?

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Old 08-27-2009, 04:34 PM   #2
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Ditra question


Yes, 3/8" minimum exterior grade exposure 1 plywood underlayment. But you are on your own if you do it.

The truth is the hardwood can still wreck your tile floor. Hardwood slat flooring should never be covered with a ceramic tile installation.

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Old 08-27-2009, 05:28 PM   #3
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Thanks Bud I knew ether you or Jaz would have an answer for me. I am sad because I have already purchased the Ditra and I really wanted to use it. I guess its going to be hardibacker or taking the oak floor out and I really dont want to do that. I guess I will be making a trip to HD to return the Ditra and go with a floating vinyl flooring

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Old 08-27-2009, 05:51 PM   #4
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Ditra question


Unfortunately the same goes for Hardibacker. No tile backer works over slat wood flooring.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:01 PM   #5
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I now realize that and will be using a floating vinyl flooring that I bought before I just really wanted tile in the bathroom we just dont have the time to remove all of that hardwood floor.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:34 PM   #6
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Ditra question


Snapstone Porcelain tile would work in your case. Real porcelain ceramic and a floating floor too.

http://www.snapstone.com
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:05 PM   #7
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I had heard of this but they dont carry it at the local HD that I know of and I dont have time to wait. I had another tile guy say that the hardwood that I have wont be a problem for tile. He said maybe if your home was built in the early 90s or something but not for a house built in 1943 with hardwood installed back then. It has done all the moving its going to do. I am going to take my chances and tile the floor. Oh and I had another HD "expert" tell me not to use ceramic tiles in the shower because they will pop off. Have you heard of this? I am not convinced. I know porcelain would have been the better choice I didnt like any that they offered.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:28 PM   #8
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I had heard of this but they dont carry it at the local HD that I know of and I dont have time to wait.
Snapstone is available at Menard's in the Midwest and at Home Depots throughout southern Canada as well as "real" tile stores all over. If it isn't on the shelf you can order it from any tile store. Snapstones sister product is called "Avair" and is also available across the country in most real tile stores. It is also available online.

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I had another tile guy say that the hardwood that I have wont be a problem for tile. He said maybe if your home was built in the early 90s or something but not for a house built in 1943 with hardwood installed back then. It has done all the moving its going to do.
I hear all kinds of stupid comments on these forums and that is one of the dumber ones I have ever heard. THINK ABOUT IT! Wood is wood. Wood expands and contracts with climatic changes. The wood doesn't care how old it is, IT STILL MOVES. The year 1943 has nothing to do with anything for God's sake. If you are taking advice from this character then you deserve what you will get for following his advice I'm afraid.

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I am going to take my chances and tile the floor. Oh and I had another HD "expert" tell me not to use ceramic tiles in the shower because they will pop off. Have you heard of this?
You're a brave man for repeating that kind of hog wash publicly. That statement doesn't even deserve a response. Was this HD employee the son of your tileguy?

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I am not convinced.
I'm beginning to wonder!

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I know porcelain would have been the better choice I didnt like any that they offered.
That comment right there pretty well finishes me off.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:46 PM   #9
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I take it you dont like me Bud and its ok. I am not normally one to not do the right thing I wanted a job done right but we just kept running into road blocks. What I really dont understand is what is the difference between hardwood floor and plywood they are the both wood. they will both expand and contract they will both move. If you were to actually see the hardwood floor that is in my bathroom you may be impressed. I know that its your job to tell people how to do it by the book and tried and true methods but I am not planning on being in the house for more than five years and the person that is going to buy my house will just tare it down and build two brand new ones just like they did all down my street. I want it to look nice and I am pretty confident that it will hold for the five years I will be living on it.

Now about the ceramic in the shower I would have liked to have some advice on this one because if its a no then I will go back and get more mosaic tiles and do the whole tub surround with them.

On the shocase forum you will be able to see the progress so far if you are interested. and I found out today that the drywall that we are using is not mold proof stuff but guess what when I tore out the drywall that was in there from 1942 there was absolutely NO MOLD in any of it. Hummmmmmmmm make you wonder.

Oh and I am a woman by the way.

and I hope you are here on this forum five years from now so I can let you know how the tile job is holding up.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:26 PM   #10
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Oh and I am a woman by the way.
Sorry - MY BAD! I should have known!

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I take it you dont like me Bud and its ok.
Rediculous!


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but we just kept running into road blocks.
Roadblocks that you yourself may be creating.

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What I really dont understand is what is the difference between hardwood floor and plywood they are the both wood.
Nothing is further from the truth.

"Wood" in the form of slats will expand and contract with changes in moisture content and temperature. It can move in six directions basically. More in the long dimension (along the grain) than in the short dimension (across the grain). The bigger the piece of wood the more opportunity for travel in the movement of course. Each board has grain in only one direction.

"Wood" in the form of plywood is an entirely different story. Yes, plywood is obviously wood. But look at the very character of how the plywood is made. Plywood is made of thin layers of wood. Plywood is assembled in these thin layers. The difference with plywood is that each layers direction opposes the preceding layers direction. Each layer is turned ninety degrees. There may be four or five or six or seven layers assembled to create one thickness of plywood. These layers are glued together and pressed under heat. It is this opposition of the grains direction of the layers that slows the expansion and contraction of the piece. plywood is very stable compared to wood slats. This is why plywood exists to begin with. Its stability. So in essence, wood is not necessarily wood in all cases.

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If you were to actually see the hardwood floor that is in my bathroom you may be impressed.
Impressed by its inherent beauty maybe.


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I know that its your job to tell people how to do it by the book and tried and true methods
Not my job at all. This isn't a job, it's a pass time. Keeps me home with the family and out of saloons full of hard headed people. I do this (as we all do) voluntarily. I am a consumer advocate and wish to help people understand proper procedures and in some cases help to save them from themselves. This world is full of hacks that only grab the money and run and that annoys me. The other side of that coin is DIY's that just don't know how to do these things, that's where I want to try to be of help when I can. People that come to ask a pro for help then argue with the answers tend to irritate me. People that come to have their ridiculous ideas blessed by someone here are also irritating. I guess I have a negative attitude when it comes down to asking for advice and then deciding to go ahead and do something that is not only contrary to the advice given but also goes against the grain of the industry standards.


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I want it to look nice and I am pretty confident that it will hold for the five years I will be living on it.
Don't bet your Cadillac on it!


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Now about the ceramic in the shower I would have liked to have some advice on this one because if its a no then I will go back and get more mosaic tiles and do the whole tub surround with them.
HOLY COW LADY! What are you talking about - WHAT SHOWER? I swear to God I must be missing something here somewhere. I thought this conversation was about installing tile over a slat wood floor.


Quote:
On the shocase forum you will be able to see the progress so far if you are interested. and I found out today that the drywall that we are using is not mold proof stuff but guess what when I tore out the drywall that was in there from 1942 there was absolutely NO MOLD in any of it.
"Showcase Forum"???
Generally drywall isn't mold proof.


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and I hope you are here on this forum five years from now so I can let you know how the tile job is holding up.
I should live so long. Ya know what - funny thing. We often have customers come back long after their projects completion and give us praise for helping them. These are the folks that have followed the advice they received here. The hard headed DIY's that insist on doing their own thing against our recommendations never return to say: "Hey you guys were right and I was wrong, my job failed during the first six months.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:53 PM   #11
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Today, 11:01 AM #15 Quadfam4


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We are putting hardibacker in the shower surround and plywood Ditra and tile on the floor. made a late night trip to HD to pick up the tile and stuff to install it.


You must be talking about this other thread (above) you have going that I wasn't aware of until now.

Funny thing tho......at 10:01 am today you knew you were going to go ahead and use plywood as recommended according to the above post, but at 5:46 pm today you didn't bother to mention that in this thread and tried to string me along. I don't get what you are up to. Please tell me what I am missing, I'm confused.

I'm also finished.
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:43 AM   #12
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Bud we did end up using plywood over the hardwood floor I know BIG NO NO but oh well. Sorry I got a bit snippy with you and yes I did ask for advice but and I did take it and pass it allong to my husband that asked his contracter friend that said what we are doing will be fine. It may not last 20 years but I guess we get what we deserve if we do it this way. I saw a guy on DIY 10 grand in your hand and he is the same guy that owns Design tech in NY and he did the same thing I am doing except he used luan instead of the 1/4 inch outdoor plywood that I put down. I know the method I am using has been done before not saying it is anywhere near right. I understand the wood difference now thank you for explaining that one to me. Yes I did write about tiling the bath surround. The guy at the big box store told me not to use the ceramic tile in the shower surround because they will pop off. I know i probably shouldnt have asked him but he said he was the tile guy and I shold have known he was BS because he said he was tiling since he was three and he was probably in his 20's. I do thank you for taking the time to explain to me the right way but we have already gone to far to stop now. I will remember that when I ask for advice to take it instead of do my own thing. Thanks again.
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:00 AM   #13
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oh and I have absolutely no problem saying that I am wrong and if you are still arround I will let you know how things went bad or good.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:46 PM   #14
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Yup, still around. All I can say is: To Each His Own!
What I don't understand is: Why did you come here to begin with?
PLEASE - No Response Necessary.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:07 PM   #15
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Boy...I'm glad I didn't see this thread sooner!

There are enough bad things that can still happen even when we think we've done everything by the book. But to knowingly go against the rules so many times on one project, is axing for it.

* The guy on TV used luan......Shows you any idiot who can get sponsors ($$$), can get his/her own TV show.

* You used "1/4" outdoor plywood"? Please tell me it wasn't pressure treated plywood.

* So many other things done against recommended methods.

* I guess you haven't yet learned that you do NOT ask for advice concerning flooring issues at those big stores. They are a building materials department store, you can not rely on any advice you may get.

Jaz

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