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Old 06-06-2009, 10:12 AM   #16
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


The substrate is very strong, no movement, unpainted concrete, but there are two drainage holes, that slope slightly for water drainage.

I do realize that if I put in a tile that is smaller I can get less lippage, but I really don't like the look of the small tiles.

The smallest is 12 inches that I have seen that I like.

I could probably do a great job with 1 inch mosaics........lol

How about this thought; if I would put extra thinset in areas where I would have to in order to get less lippage?

Also, I have been hearing the term back butter? What exactly is that, and when is it used?

Thanks a lot darling you are very sweet to help me.

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Old 06-06-2009, 11:41 AM   #17
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


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How about this thought; if I would put extra thinset in areas where I would have to in order to get less lippage?
Ya-know.....
THAT is a concept that gets bandied around from time to time. The truth is, it typically doesn't work like that. It wouldn't change anything when addressing the slope(s). Using thinset in abundance can cause purging between the tiles and may be difficult to clean up. Thinset is notorious for shrinking as it cures and using thinset in abundance can cause perfectly-set tiles to move with the shrinking process.

How about using a smaller tile in the plan in the areas of the slopes and make a design of/in those areas?

I don't know how much slope you are dealing with but FYI a typical shower floor should slope about 1/4" per foot of run. In this case the tile needs to be around 2"-3" to be able to follow those slopes. I know we aren't talking about a shower floor but the issues are the same.

Quote:
Also, I have been hearing the term back butter? What exactly is that, and when is it used?
"Back buttering" is used in such a case where the substrate isn't perfectly 'plane' and the tiles are large. The process is to spread thinset on the substrate and comb it with the notched trowel. Always comb in one direction. THEN the backs of the tiles are 100% 'skim-coated' with thinset using the flat side of the trowel. This insures good contact on both surfaces. In some cases the back buttering of the tile is also combed the same as the substrate. When placing the tiles it is necessary to plop the tiles (that's a professional term - "plop") and then sorta squiggle the tiles in the thinset to seat them where you want them. (Squiggle - is another high-tech term) Move the tiles to their final resting place. If purging occurs from using so much thinset, now is the time to clean/remove the purging. You should always have a bucket of water and a sponge at-the-ready for just such reasons anyway.

SIDEBAR: In the past and in just such a situation I have been known to use what is termed a "rubble" approach to this issue of swailes and sloping floor drains. The floor tiles can be set in accordance with the layout. When it comes time to put tile around a sloping floor drain the tiles can be broken, hence the term "rubble". The broken pieces are installed in place of a tile (or several tiles) and the broken pieces will follow the contour of the slope. This way you are using the same tile, you are conforming to the slope, you have created a nice design, you have eliminated any possibility for lippage, and you have resolved a PITA issue.
WARNING: Broken tiles can have razor-sharp edges so grouting the tiles to the tile surface is mandatory. In some cases sharp edges may need to be filed.

So anyway...just some ideas. How much floor drain slope are you dealing with?
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:22 PM   #18
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Bud, I thank you very much for your time and your great explanation and advice. It is much appreciated.

Your idea of the broken tiles and creating a design sounds really good.
I just have to come up with some design. Thanks for warning about the sharp edges.

The slope that I am dealing with is about a 1 1/2 inch slope in a radius of 8 to 9 feet.


That is the largest one. The other is approx. 1/2 inch slope in a radius of
4 feet.

Purging between the tiles? Is this when the thin set squeezes out between the tiles?

Also, when I put my tile spacers in, when do I remove them? If I wait too long will they not dry up in the thin set?

Also, how long can I have the thin set in my bucket before it starts to dry? I think I will be pretty slow at this, and I won't be mixing too much.

Bud, I remember way back there was a site where you showed your amazing work, but I can't seem to find it. Do you still have that?
I would love to take a look.

Ok, I'll stop with the questions........
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:50 PM   #19
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Quote:
Purging between the tiles? Is this when the thin set squeezes out between the tiles?

Quote:
Also, when I put my tile spacers in, when do I remove them? If I wait too long will they not dry up in the thin set?
If you layout a grid with a chalk line you won't need spacers. Spacers can get you into trouble. Any deformity in a tile will be exaggerated when using spacers. The oh-oh's get pushed around because the tiles won't be perfect and the spacers will.

To answer your question...use the spacers to keep yourself honest but don't trust them 100%. Once the tile has had a few minutes to seize-in-place the spacers can be removed. You can leave them in until you are ready to grout if you like. Use spacers that stick above the tile and that you can get a grasp on when the time comes.

Quote:
Also, how long can I have the thin set in my bucket before it starts to dry? I think I will be pretty slow at this,
"Pot-life" of most thinsets is very user friendly. An hour or more shouldn't be a problem.

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I won't be mixing too much.
That would be my suggestion.

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Bud, I remember way back there was a site where you showed your amazing work, but I can't seem to find it. Do you still have that?
I would love to take a look.
To tell you the truth I have a few photos scattered around but I don't remember where they are either. When it comes to taking pictures I have been what one might say is "digitally Challenged" when it comes to getting those photos posted on websites. The basics seem to escape me. I don't take that many photos anymore anyway.

Years ago I kept up a scrapbook to use to sell my wares but that isn't necessary anymore, I can take potential customers to the crime scenes to see the creations first hand.


Quote:
Ok, I'll stop with the questions........
Not a problem, glad to help.
I just went searching for some photos and once again I find myself......
well let's just say I'm not sure how to do it still.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:24 PM   #20
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Wow Bud, great input. I am learning tons and I am not even doing any tiling.

I love this, especially with the maple leaf in the center.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:50 PM   #21
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Bud, your work is fabulous.

I like the maple leaf, eh.......lol

Thanks again for your help. I will try to come up with a design that incorporates broken up tiles, so that I can make it look as best I can.

My clients won't complain, as they don't know the difference.........lol (the problem is that I will.....)

Love ya......
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:04 PM   #22
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


I am somewhat confused as to how to mark the layout for a diagonal pattern for my tile installation.


My thinking was to find my center point by measuring both length and width of two walls and then I would just place the tile points on the lines that are criss crossed, and then continue to lay them?

Is my thinking correct or is there a better way?
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Old 06-09-2009, 06:23 PM   #23
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Well-l-l-l...you are correct to a point. You have to calculate the proper spacing for the grout lines. It would be easier to snap out chalk lines as if you were laying on-the-square ('cause basically you are). Lay down your chalk grid (crooked) and go from there.
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:50 PM   #24
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


You mean, I have to mark ALL the lines including adding the grout line?

I thought that if the first tile is laid correctly then the rest would follow?

Do |I also have to put the level on everytime I lay a tile to check to see if they are level?

What is I don't do the grid, what would happen? Would I end up going crooked?

Thanks Bud
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:32 AM   #25
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Gosh, YM, if you have paying 'customers', then you owe Bud a commission at least on providing you with the know-how to do what you are selling.

Heck, give him everything but the usual 20% finders fee...
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:02 PM   #26
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Bud, I could use your help!!
I started tiling a shower stall in a corner 34" on each wall using 13x13 ceramic tile. I started, it wasn't even close to right, so I took the tile off and scraped the thin set off. I am ready to try over........I think......anyway, I am unsure of how and where to start. Do I lay the first row starting at the shower tub lip, let it set for 24 hours and then come back and finish? Please help this diy'er get this done. I have successfully completed river rock on the floor, and I need to finish the wall.helphelphelp

Thank you so much in advance for your help.

Melissa
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:04 PM   #27
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Yummy,
Quote:
You mean, I have to mark ALL the lines including adding the grout line?
Well Yow-ow-ow! Is that a problem?

Establish a baseline.

Determine if this base line is the center of a tile or the edge of a tile. Based on how you want the tile to balance at the edges. If you do!

Then determine the size of your grout line you want to use.

Add together the exact dimension of a tile, plus the exact dimension of a grout line, plus the exact dimension of another tile, plus the exact dimension of another grout line. This is assuming you are using tile around thirteen inches square.

The total sum of these dimensions becomes your grid size.

Now layout your grid pattern using those dimensions, do it in each direction. Snap down chalk lines. Lay your tiles according to your grid line. Do not deviate from your layout for any reason. You should easily be able to reach out and plant the four tiles involved in each grid square.

Spread your thinset in one square up to all the lines outlining that square. Comb your thinset in one direction only, usually left to right. Place the tile and slide them away from you so as to collapse the combed high ridge of the thinset into the low valley of the combed thinset. Squiggle the tile slightly then draw it to your closest grid line one final time. Now plop the tile above it into place and adjust your grout line(s).



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I thought that if the first tile is laid correctly then the rest would follow?
NOT NECESSARILY!!! This is why tile spacers get you into trouble!

Quote:
Do |I also have to put the level on every time I lay a tile to check to see if they are level?
NOPE! This is why your substrate must be flat. If you comb your thinset properly and your substrate is flat it will be smooth sailin'.

Quote:
What is I don't do the grid, what would happen? Would I end up going crooked?
Try it and see what happens but don't come complainin' to me when you have crooked tiles and curves in your installation!!!!!

Last edited by Bud Cline; 06-10-2009 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:35 PM   #28
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Yummy,

Quote:
Gosh, YM, if you have paying 'customers', then you owe Bud a commission at least on providing you with the know-how to do what you are selling.
A Cashier's Check or Postal Money Order will be fine, I'll get you my address.
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:13 PM   #29
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


Bud, yes I can do the grid but it just seems like a lot of work. But if you tell me to do it, and it's been 2 1/2 years what is another day.....

I am not too concerned about having the tiles at the walls even on all four walls. My clients don't know the difference.......

By the way, my clients are not paying clients, actually they cost me everyday.......my two girls.....

What they do give me is absolute joy everyday, and that is priceless.

So I will give you what they give me, many thanks and much appreciation for helping me with my tiling.
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Old 06-11-2009, 07:02 AM   #30
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ceramic tiles on a diagonal pattern....


"By the way, my clients are not paying clients..."

Oh. Really? No kidding!...

I hope you are grateful for having received the biggest anyone can give you: the ability to think for yourself.


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