Can bad grout job be salvaged?

wlsmith · 10-23-2010, 12:04 PM

Is it the concensus opinion here that "starting over" means ripping out the subflooring?

Bud Cline · 10-23-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

How does the "real thing" make for a better tiling job?

The thing is...the "premixed" makes for a lessor tile job.

The premixed is nothing more than mastic with maybe a little sand added to it to make it look and handle like real thinset. To call the premixed products "thinset" is a real stretch of the imagination.

Mastic takes a long time to dry under porcelain tile, if it ever dries. Under small tiles such as yours it will dry but under larger formats it may never set-up. If the premixed isn't totally dry walking on the tile or getting on the tile to grout can raise bonding and movement issues. It can also cause the grout color to mottle and the grout to cure unevenly. Should the floor get wet or even with frequent cleaning the premixed can re-emulsify and cause grout cracking and tile shifting under foot.

Real thinset on the other hand will bond better, cure/dry as required, stay dry, water or moisture won't effect it after it has cured. It also provides a substantial solid base for the tile as well as being totally compatible with the grout products.

Premixed thinset is a gimmick. The makers offer it and sell it as a one-size-fits-all product and nothing could be further from the truth. It is a lazy man's product.

You won't find any experienced professional tile installer that will use it for anything, most especially a tile floor.

ccarlisle · 10-23-2010, 01:11 PM

This is not the place to go half-measures on installation; a shower floor can receive as much- if not more - water per square foot as your roof does so don't pinch pennies - start from scratch.

Premixed thinset - chemically - is in the same realm as 'paints' and 'mastic': acrylic emulsions with additives designed to goad the US DIY consumer into buying a technically-inferior product. No matter how good the acrylic resin or the formualtion, showers are not the place for emulsions.

Oh...Bud just said all that - but more eloquently.

Bud Cline · 10-23-2010, 01:16 PM

Is this a bathroom floor or a shower floor? Which is it?

Quote:

Is it the concensus opinion here that "starting over" means ripping out the subflooring?

Not necessarily. My guess is...that tile will peel-up easily and the adhesive can be scraped off the plywood. Any remaining adhesive residue can be cleaned up with a sponge and warm water.

THEN, a proper tile-backer can be used.

wlsmith · 10-23-2010, 01:57 PM

This is a bathroom floor...not shower.

Thanks, Bud, for the great explanation about pre-mix.

I think I am set (straight) then. Next time it is backer board, real thinset and much better attention to the grout work.

Bud Cline · 10-23-2010, 02:32 PM

Good Luck with your project.

ianc435 · 11-14-2010, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blondesense

Dremel does make an attachment for their tools for removing grout. Still a tedious job tho, especially on one inch tile.

Maybe Bud will stop by with another alternative for you.

There is a grout saw that goes on a sawzall and the dremel works awesome.

ianc435 · 11-14-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline

The thing is...the "premixed" makes for a lessor tile job.

The premixed is nothing more than mastic with maybe a little sand added to it to make it look and handle like real thinset. To call the premixed products "thinset" is a real stretch of the imagination.

Mastic takes a long time to dry under porcelain tile, if it ever dries. Under small tiles such as yours it will dry but under larger formats it may never set-up. If the premixed isn't totally dry walking on the tile or getting on the tile to grout can raise bonding and movement issues. It can also cause the grout color to mottle and the grout to cure unevenly. Should the floor get wet or even with frequent cleaning the premixed can re-emulsify and cause grout cracking and tile shifting under foot.

Real thinset on the other hand will bond better, cure/dry as required, stay dry, water or moisture won't effect it after it has cured. It also provides a substantial solid base for the tile as well as being totally compatible with the grout products.

Premixed thinset is a gimmick. The makers offer it and sell it as a one-size-fits-all product and nothing could be further from the truth. It is a lazy man's product.

You won't find any experienced professional tile installer that will use it for anything, most especially a tile floor.

The premix sucks. Tile size limitations and it stinks. I used it once for three 12 x12 tiles cut diagnally. It was seventy plug degrees in my cellar and dry. A week later the tile was stepped on and it slipped. I left the cover off the bucket and 6 months later it was still no set up. That stuff blows. I will only dry mix from now on