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bathtub wall board not plumb

3K views 17 replies 3 participants last post by  Bud Cline 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi,

any suggestions to the below.
(hope I am using the right verbiage)
I am at the point of tiling a tub surround, I have all the (Dens Shield) boards up, I have covered all the seems with mesh tape and applied a waterproofing membrane (hydrobarrier from Laticrete) where necessary. When I check each board ,using a level ,to see if the wall is plumb, I see there is a 1/8 of a gap for the wall to be plumb.
My question is, rather than removing the boards and re-shimming the framing is there an easier method to bring the board to be plumb ?
I was thinking of putting three or four coats using the waterproofing membrane to fill the gap, then tile on top, would that work ? will the thinset stick to the waterproofing membrane ?

thank you for any suggestion
 
#4 ·
Hi,

any suggestions to the below.
(hope I am using the right verbiage)
I am at the point of tiling a tub surround, I have all the (Dens Shield) boards up, I have covered all the seems with mesh tape and applied a waterproofing membrane (hydrobarrier from Laticrete) where necessary. When I check each board ,using a level ,to see if the wall is plumb, I see there is a 1/8 of a gap for the wall to be plumb.
My question is, rather than removing the boards and re-shimming the framing is there an easier method to bring the board to be plumb ?
I was thinking of putting three or four coats using the waterproofing membrane to fill the gap, then tile on top, would that work ? will the thinset stick to the waterproofing membrane ?
thank you for any suggestion
THAT waterproofing product is not intended to be used to fill gaps, so don't do that.

Where exactly is this "gap"?

The above information is a little cloudy and difficult to understand.

The walls (technically) don't have to be absolutely "plumb" to receive tile, a lot of walls are not plumb.

So...try your explanation again.
 
#5 ·
more explanation

hopefully the below clarifies it better , when I put my level on the board vertically, I see the water bubble on the level is not in the middle between the two lines but leans toward the line further from the board, so if I move the level outward away from the board to make the water bubble fall in between the two lines, then a gap or space between the level and the board is formed, and this space is about 1/8th inch, I was referring to that space between the board and the level as the "gap", so I was thinking if I put three or four layers of the waterproofing membrane to make the board thicker and thus making the wall plumb.
 
#6 ·
hopefully the below clarifies it better , when I put my level on the board vertically, I see the water bubble on the level is not in the middle between the two lines but leans toward the line further from the board, so if I move the level outward away from the board to make the water bubble fall in between the two lines, then a gap or space between the level and the board is formed, and this space is about 1/8th inch, I was referring to that space between the board and the level as the "gap", so I was thinking if I put three or four layers of the waterproofing membrane to make the board thicker and thus making the wall plumb.

Yeah well that's not a "gap", it's a "variance".

What happens when you turn your level over?
I gotta tell ya...you are worrying about nothing. Forget it and move on to something more productive. Oh...and put the tile on that wall last.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Your wall may not be plumb, (not many are), but what you want is flat. If there's little or no gap anywhere when the straight edge is against the wall.....you're good. Check in every direction. (Next time do this first, against the studs).

BTW, why did you ask this?
will the thinset stick to the waterproofing membrane ?
Why are you applying a membrane on DensShield? Plus you already applied at least some membrane. What was your plan?

Jaz
 
#10 ·
Your wall may not be plumb, (not many are), but what you want is flat. If there's little or no gap anywhere when the straight edge is against the wall.....you're good. Check in every direction. (Next time do this first, against the studs).

BTW, why did you ask this?

Why are you applying a membrane on DensShield? Plus you already applied at least some membrane. What was your plan?

Jaz
thank you for replying JazMan,
before putting the boards up, I checked that the level edge horizontally is flat against the studs and corrected any variance by sistering the studs with the variance, but I did not check vertically (which I should have).
I only applied the membrane on the corners and seems where two boards meet and not on the whole boards (DensShield comes 4x8 and my wall was 5 x 5 on one side) and also to cover the screws, but then when I saw the level edge is not flat against the boards vertically (1/8th variance) I was thinking of applying two to three layers of membrane just to compensate for the vertical variance. this is why the question about whether the thinset would stick to the membrane (if I go the membrane layer route).
any suggestions ?
 
#14 ·
Latex/polymer modified is what you use over Denshield. It's also the thinset used to go over liquid membrane. That's not the issue, it'll stick fine. The issue is you don't apply liquid membrane over Denshield cuz it already has the membrane on the surface. You don't want both.

You don't worry about an 1/8" in 5-6 ft. out of plumb. Too late to fix it now anyway unless you wanna switch to a real "mud" job. If you mess with it now, you're gonna cause other issues as Bud said.

As for which wall to do first. If it's a tub surround and we call each wall #1 - 2 - 3, from left to right with #2 being the larger back wall; If 1 & 2 are plumb and #3 is leaning forward or backwards and therefore not plumb, you should do #2 first, (as you would anyway in most cases). That way you cut the tiles to match the "lean" of the side wall (s).

But again 1/8" is nothing. Then you tile the other two walls which are plumb and should be easier to cut to. This is in theory and I've rarely been able to make all the cuts the same size. Just isn't gonna happen. So, are the walls flat or just out of plumb? Forget the bubbles or use a wood straight edge instead. The bubble to check "flat" will mess your brain.

Jaz
 
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#15 · (Edited)
Latex/polymer modified is what you use over Denshield. It's also the thinset used to go over liquid membrane. That's not the issue, it'll stick fine. The issue is you don't apply liquid membrane over Denshield cuz it already has the membrane on the surface. You don't want both.

You don't worry about an 1/8" in 5-6 ft. out of plumb. Too late to fix it now anyway unless you wanna switch to a real "mud" job. If you mess with it now, you're gonna cause other issues as Bud said.

As for which wall to do first. If it's a tub surround and we call each wall #1 - 2 - 3, from left to right with #2 being the larger back wall; If 1 & 2 are plumb and #3 is leaning forward or backwards and therefore not plumb, you should do #2 first, (as you would anyway in most cases). That way you cut the tiles to match the "lean" of the side wall (s).

But again 1/8" is nothing. Then you tile the other two walls which are plumb and should be easier to cut to. This is in theory and I've rarely been able to make all the cuts the same size. Just isn't gonna happen. So, are the walls flat or just out of plumb? Forget the bubbles or use a wood straight edge instead. The bubble to check "flat" will mess your brain.

Jaz
I bought the HomeDepot "FlexBond" , will that work on DensShield ? any suggestion on where to buy "Latex/Polymer" modified thinset if the HD brand is no good?

last night I went ahead and used a 2x4 flat edge and tested all three walls, here are the results.
Wall #1 is perfectly straight from top to bottom horizontal and vertical.
Wall #2 starting from the side close to wall #1, vertically the wall has a lean of 1/16" starting from the middle upwards , from the middle downwards no lean, then as I get close to wall #3 the lean (again starting from the middle of the wall) becomes 1/8".
Wall#3 starting from the corner with wall#2 it has a vertical lean of 1/16" and stays at 1/16" (also starting from the middle of the wall).
so it looks like my issue is with both wall #2 and #3 specifically where they meet at the corner.

forgive me for asking too many newbie questions,
regarding DensShield and liquid membrane you said "The issue is you don't apply liquid membrane over Denshield cuz it already has the membrane on the surface. You don't want both " .

I don't want both because it is redundant or because the membrane will cause issues with the DensShield board ?

Knowing the above do you guys see any issue with starting tiling on the existing walls as they stand ?
 
#17 · (Edited)
DIYer said:
I bought the HomeDepot "FlexBond" , will that work on DensShield ? any suggestion on where to buy "Latex/Polymer" modified thinset if the HD brand is no good?
That's one of them, it's a modified mortar and a very decent one. It's made by Custom Building Products, HD doesn't make anything. Just about all of the thinset mortars out there are modified. Just different grades and characteristics from every manufacturer to match the project and $$$.

DIYer said:
last night I went ahead and used a 2x4 flat edge and tested all three walls
Are you telling us you actually found a 2x4 that was straight? :huh: Don't you have a 4' level or some nice 1x4 hardwood straight edges?

You discovered that two walls are about 1/16" out of plumb. That's nothing. May I remind you that the tiles are at least 1/4" thick and you'll be fine. Just cut wall 2 to wall 3 to within 1/8", then when you do wall 3, the cuts will vary 1/16" as you go up. Even the gap can vary more than that cuz you're gonna caulk all corners which slightly overlaps on the tiles.

Have you decided what size tiles will be in the corners? You have 4 vertical rows of tiles to consider.

forgive me for asking too many newbie questions,
regarding DensShield and liquid membrane you said "The issue is you don't apply liquid membrane over Denshield cuz it already has the membrane on the surface. You don't want both " .

I don't want both because it is redundant or because the membrane will cause issues with the DensShield board ?
Yes it is redundant but it's unnecessary and may even cause a failure. What if it doesn't stick as well as thinset will? Just dab any punctures caused by over driving fasteners.

We warn not to apply two membranes, but normally that refers to a surface membrane and one applied on the studs. Either way, you shouldn't do that.

Knowing the above do you guys see any issue with starting tiling on the existing walls as they stand ?
Are you done yet? :laughing:


Jaz
 
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