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Old 07-17-2013, 08:33 PM   #16
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Bathroom Shower tiling


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Schluters Kerdi is approved and warrantied over drywall,but few building departments allow it---
"Few"? What do you mean by that exactly?

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Old 07-18-2013, 05:37 AM   #17
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"Few"? What do you mean by that exactly?
I think what mike is saying, that depending the town or city to get a shower inspected or pull permit for the work the building department will or not allow you to use kerdi over sheet rock as Schluter says you can if you don't need to have permits to do the work.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:52 AM   #18
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I think what mike is saying, that depending the town or city to get a shower inspected or pull permit for the work the building department will or not allow you to use kerdi over sheet rock as Schluter says you can if you don't need to have permits to do the work.
Which would make sense, but I'm not sure I'd go with drywall even if possible. There's really something to be said for the strength gained from using a backer product. Should someone slip and fall against the wall I'd imagine a wall backed with only drywall would be MUCH more likely to cave and result in cracks to the tile or grout attached to it. Where a backer product would be more likely to withstand the impact.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:04 AM   #19
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Which would make sense, but I'm not sure I'd go with drywall even if possible. There's really something to be said for the strength gained from using a backer product. Should someone slip and fall against the wall I'd imagine a wall backed with only drywall would be MUCH more likely to cave and result in cracks to the tile or grout attached to it. Where a backer product would be more likely to withstand the impact.
Bill... Are we forgetting that greenboard was used almost extensively/ exclusively for many many many years.... greenboard is not even as firm strong as reqular drywall.... with no caving problems .... obvious problems were water migration... and then we went to non water sensative products.

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Old 07-18-2013, 11:15 AM   #20
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It comes down to plane old insurance IMO, if it was possible to install tile on drywall and know 100% that it will not fail, crack and or leak in 100 years then none of these other products would exist. It take a incredible amount of temperature change..... Through tile, and thinset for drywall to start doing weird things.

Kerdi is to stop water at that point if done correctly. What I think is if you were to put it over drywall and not tile after that, it would be waterproof but could very well be just like glass and or fiberglass you can get condensation on the other side.

I've demo many bathrooms with tile on sheet rock, never seen moisture stains behind drywall unless tile or grout failed then water damaged is what I've see. If the drywall was dry then punching holes between studs you can end up taking most of the wall out its some strong stuff when you have tile and thinset on it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:47 PM   #21
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Bill... Are we forgetting that greenboard was used almost extensively/ exclusively for many many many years.... greenboard is not even as firm strong as reqular drywall.... with no caving problems .... obvious problems were water migration... and then we went to non water sensative products.
Well, I've heard few complaints about tile laid on backer products, but many, many, many complaints about ones laid on drywall (green or otherwise). I'd argue cracking of the tile or grout was potentially more likely because of a poor substrate (the drywall) vs a backer. Especially if it was just 1/2" drywall. Doesn't take much flex to make a hard products like tile or grout crack. That would make me skeptical of just putting Kerdi on drywall.

Given the costs associated with the damage possible from water leaks I just don't see much sense trying to "save money" here. Especially not if it's a DIY job.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:32 PM   #22
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There is essentially no chance of someone falling against a wall and breaking through the wall, through the tile/grout/thinset structure, AND the Kerdi, AND the drywall. And yes, Kerdi does make the structure stronger, in the same sense that the paper on drywall makes the drywall stronger.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:39 AM   #23
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Didn't say break through. Tile and grout needs NO movement. Flex of any kind WILL lead to cracking. Now, a membrane product behind it will help avoid it become a worse problem for the structure behind it. But then there's the water infiltration and likely mold developing that will further degrade the connection of the tile to the wall, regardless of the materials.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:16 PM   #24
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Didn't say break through.
Maybe your use of the word "cave" was misleading:

"Should someone slip and fall against the wall I'd imagine a wall backed with only drywall would be MUCH more likely to cave"

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But then there's the water infiltration and likely mold developing that will further degrade the connection of the tile to the wall, regardless of the materials.
It's not regardless of the materials, because mold will not grow without food, i.e. organic material. So either the building materials or something added later will have to be present for mold to grow. Wood, drywall, etc are organic materials. Kerdi, tile, grout and thinset are not organic materials and mold cannot grow on them unless some other organic material has infiltrated them. (Water is not an organic material.)

Having said that, I'm curious why you say the presence of mold would actually degrade the connection of tile to the substrate. That's really a side issue. If mold is growing, then moisture and organic material is present. For example, mastic. In this case, it's not the mold that causes the problem - it's the fact that the mastic got wet, and it's not supposed to. For another example, if tile is cemented to wood, and the wood gets wet and swells, then the tile is probably coming off. This will happen long before mold shows up.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:41 PM   #25
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You both are saying the same thing about mold just in two different ways........

The difference is if you thinset on drywall and drywall gets wet there very well could be a math equation to deem it still stronger over mastic as that crap turns to gum when wet. IMO i would take thinset on drywall over mastic on drywall or even cement board.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:51 PM   #26
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(Water is not an organic material.)
Yet in a typical residential setting there's going to be a lot more carried along with that water... like any soaps or other products. As for not being able to grow, yeah... right... if that's what you need to believe.
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:20 PM   #27
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Yet in a typical residential setting there's going to be a lot more carried along with that water... like any soaps or other products.
Well, since you brought it up....

This is actually something I've been thinking about for awhile. They say that certain installations won't grow mold. But if we allow for the fact that things like conditioner or whatever can penetrate any grout/thinset installation, aren't we saying that basically any shower can grow mold? A material like Kerdi doesn't matter, because the organic material can be sitting on top of it, having infiltrated the thinset.

That seems to make sense, but then why don't all showers smell like mildew? The vast majority of well installed showers don't. I admit I haven't totally understood this....
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:40 PM   #28
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Well, since you brought it up....

This is actually something I've been thinking about for awhile. They say that certain installations won't grow mold. But if we allow for the fact that things like conditioner or whatever can penetrate any grout/thinset installation, aren't we saying that basically any shower can grow mold? A material like Kerdi doesn't matter, because the organic material can be sitting on top of it, having infiltrated the thinset.

That seems to make sense, but then why don't all showers smell like mildew? The vast majority of well installed showers don't. I admit I haven't totally understood this....
Intersting... good point.... and good thinking it out... rather then spitting out conventional (or not so conventinal) wisdoms.

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