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Old 05-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #31
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To back butter or not to back butter?


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This is absolute nonsense. We're not going to agree to disagree because you're just flat out wrong and it's not a matter of opinion or different methods.

This is what full coverage looks like.
http://inspectapedia.com/BestPractices/Figure6-39.jpg

The ridges are gone, and the tile is completely covered with thinset. This is accomplished by squashing down the ridges.

If you're getting too much thinset squashing up the sides, you're doing it wrong.

There is one primary reason for troweling on thinset with a notched trowel. It's because there's no other easy way to get a consistent depth of thinset across the entire substrate. A side effect of that is that air has a place to escape when you press the tile down. If it weren't for that, you'd squash the ridges down first before setting the tile. In fact that's exactly what you should do after troweling for small mosaic tile. That helps keep the thinset from squishing up between the thin little tiles.

The reason for trowel lines is because if you have a flat plane of wet thinset and put the tile down air will be trapped under your tile with no way of releasing it - not full coverage. Provided you comb the thinset all in one direction, set your tile in there, pull it and push it back against the direction of the lines while pressing down you will have complete coverage and a bond which makes it nearly impossible to pull the tile off before the thinset cures. After it's cured it's a perfect bond.

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #32
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To back butter or not to back butter?


Hi Jet,
Here is a short video of a 5 star contractor, at Coverings last week, during the Showcase Installations , where just about EVERYBODY in the building is a tile setter or professional in the tile industry- and he's BACK BUTTERING the tile using what you are calling- "a tile toy." And he's NOT just doing the middle of the tile.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=371267619661228
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #33
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To back butter or not to back butter?


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Hi Jet,
Here is a short video of a 5 star contractor, at Coverings last week, during the Showcase Installations , where just about EVERYBODY in the building is a tile setter or professional in the tile industry- and he's BACK BUTTERING the tile using what you are calling- "a tile toy." And he's NOT just doing the middle of the tile.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=371267619661228
Call me oldé methods I guess...... I see that as a pointless item to have unless your bb a tile so large you can't cover in on spot or you have a large enough erea to have this and not trip over it or you have a helper.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #34
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To back butter or not to back butter?


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I know I'm getting 100% coverage when I lay my tile or damm well close too it and that tile isn't going anywhere and it doest sound hollow.

Do you want me to pull tiles up that I've layed to get a number of coverage when I installed them?....I didn't think so.
That is exactly what tilesetters should do on 1 or 2 tiles to check - especially if they use bad technique, such as what you described.

So, how exactly do you know you're getting 100% coverage? If you're not pressing down the ridges, you are definitely not getting 100% coverage. Probably about 60-70% coverage.

On the other hand, if you are getting 100% coverage, then you are definitely pressing down your ridges.

So you're wrong, one way or another.

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You can fly around the internet and the results will still be deflicting
I don't have the slightest idea what that means.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:44 PM   #35
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The reason for trowel lines is because if you have a flat plane of wet thinset and put the tile down air will be trapped under your tile with no way of releasing it
I already mentioned that. But it's not the primary reason. The primary reason for trowel lines is getting a consistent thickness of thinset. If you didn't use a notched trowel, you couldn't possibly get tile level.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:49 PM   #36
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I see that as a pointless item to have
You're missing the point (again... <sigh>). The point is, he's buttering the entire tile surface, not just the middle. Buttering only the middle is dumb.

If your tile installations work, it's only because there's a lot of wiggle room with tile. Tile is tough stuff, and sometimes inferior techniques aren't bad enough to cause the tile to fail.

But if your installations work, it's in spite of your technique and your bizarre reasoning, not because of it.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:53 PM   #37
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I already mentioned that. But it's not the primary reason. The primary reason for trowel lines is getting a consistent thickness of thinset. If you didn't use a notched trowel, you couldn't possibly get tile level.
You mentioned crushing the lines entirely ..trapping air and letting air out. there's a difference.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #38
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You mentioned crushing the lines entirely ..trapping air and letting air out. there's a difference.
Go read post #28 again.

It doesn't matter how much you argue, no one is going to let you post nonsense here for the DIYers at home to read.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:01 PM   #39
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Go read post #28 again.

It doesn't matter how much you argue, no one is going to let you post nonsense here for the DIYers at home to read.
Like wise!
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:04 PM   #40
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But I have a couple advantages over you - first, no one else here agrees with you, and I'm in agreement with everyone here. Second, your methods are easily explained as faulty just by using a little thought and common sense. Mine, you can't really deny.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:09 PM   #41
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I think the original poster fpr4 got scared away. I doubt that he/she was served well by this thread and got the question answered.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:10 PM   #42
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But I have a couple advantages over you - first, no one else here agrees with you, and I'm in agreement with everyone here. Second, your methods are easily explained as faulty just by using a little thought and common sense. Mine, you can't really deny.
No one has to agree with me or you to make or brake these shananigins and who would anyway its silliness really.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:11 PM   #43
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Lots of lurkers and people reading this in the future.....
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:04 AM   #44
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To back butter or not to back butter?


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No one has to agree with me or you to make or brake these shananigins and who would anyway its silliness really.
I have a serious question for you. Not sure of your experience but I'm just a DIYer when it comes to tile. But everyone here is disagreeing with you and have posted many references to why you are wrong and the TCNA says you are wrong. The only guy that has agred with you is the lowes employee which from my experience are notorious for spewing false information. Why should others believe what you are saying over what seems like the whole rest of the tile industry says?
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:20 AM   #45
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To back butter or not to back butter?


Unfortunately on this site there is a lot of bad info that get's passed. it is good to have arguments between industry pros that show DIYer's that what they are told by some is not always correct.

it pays to do your homework.

in this case, we have a hard headed individual that just can't seem to grasp the fact he has done something wrong. Lucky that so far it has not bit him in the but.

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