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Old 02-24-2010, 06:14 PM   #1
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


I notice on home improvement shows, they sometimes put a plastic wrap (looks sort of like housewrap) on top of the duro-rock before applying the tile. I believe it's done for waterproofing. Not sure if they do it for the floor.

What is this membrane, and should I use it?

Also, when should or shouldn't I put Ditra on the floor?

Thanks.

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Old 02-24-2010, 06:46 PM   #2
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


There are several water proofing membranes (aka - tile underlayment membranes) you can consider - each have slightly different specifications (you must read the product facts carefully - some are best with certain tiles and certain types of thinset, etc. Match the right product with the right materials so you don't have problems in the future.)

However - there is also something called 'Red-guard' - it is a paint-on water proof membrane that's for use on sheetrock and under tile thinset. http://www.custombuildingproducts.co...s/RedGard.aspx

I'd suggest you consider this, instead.

I've never used it before but definitely will for my bathroom I'm working on. . . and for all other tiling projects in the future.

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Old 02-24-2010, 06:53 PM   #3
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


There are a few products out there like kerdi and noble for waterproofing showers. Kerdi and ditra are both made by schluter. Keeps the substrate from ever getting wet and therefore keeps shower cleaner and smelling better, not to mention you never have to worry if water is getting past the cement board. These are not to be confused with redguard and other liquid applied membranes. Might not hurt for you to take a look and do some reading on the schluter website. Ditra is not necessary but does have some great advantages in many situations.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:20 PM   #4
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


The Schluter stuff looks very interesting. How well does it hold up? Or is that yet to be seen? How long has this stuff been in production?
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:34 PM   #5
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


Kerdi is a solid plastic (high-density polyethylene) sheet with a fleece material bonded to both sides (for the thinset to grab). Not sure how long it's been around the US, but I believe it came here from Europe.

I'd bet that it will last as long as necessary for you to get tired of the new tile you're installing!

Looking at their web site, I see that some of the state approvals are dated 2005. So it's been around at least that long...

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Old 03-04-2010, 08:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
The Schluter stuff looks very interesting. How well does it hold up? Or is that yet to be seen? How long has this stuff been in production?
Schluter's Kerdi membrane has been proven and around long enough for every bathroom/shower installer to be using it; no reason not to at least consider the benefits of a waterproof shower when you compare the investment in a new shower - let's say $8000 on average for a top-of-the-line natural stone enclosure.


Without waterproofing, that $8000 might last you 5 years before it may be time for a tear-out; however a waterproof shower will outlast the homeownera and we put that at 35-45 years. Now what's the best investment for comfort and possible resale?

The $ difference between the same two showers - one waterproofed and the other not - is about $1000 - so definitely worth it.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:58 AM   #7
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I think I'll do the kerdi. My shower will be about 36" x 50" with a corner cut off for an angled door. Someone at Schluter said I could use the 32" x 60" shower pan and fill the 2" on each side with mortar. That sound like a good plan?

I don't think all the kerdi, corners, shower pan, etc will cost me more than about $600, probably worth it.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:43 AM   #8
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


Yeah definitely worth it and a DIY project too. The Schluter shower kit is worth about $500 in stock sizes and avilable through HomeDepot. The key element is the drainage plane right down to the drain...
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:14 PM   #9
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


I was thinking about using the schluter shower pan, but using redgard instead of kerdi. Thoughts on that? Can I paint redgard right on the foam pan?

That will save me a few hundred dollars...not sure if it's worth it.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:51 PM   #10
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Yeah, you can always try to sculpt your own shower-floor out of mortar but that is such risky business. I'd suggest for you to use a shower pan, as well - and build on it.

If the cost is around 600 or so - then it's not bad. The average bathtub can cost 500 or so and a complete shower with surround can be more than that . . so its not too much more. Cost always is painful upfront, no matter what you're doing - but if you buy the right things and do it right then you can breath a sigh of relief when, in 10 years, you're not having to pay it out, again, to redo everything due to serious water damage.

Make sure you seal properly around all gaps and cracks in your plumbing and surfaces. It's amazing what kind of damage some water can do when it gets where its not suppose to be.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:44 PM   #11
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Waterproofing tiled bathroom wall/floor


I have no experience with Redgard, but I can't imagine that any liquid coating could block moisture nearly as well or as long as a solid sheet of polyethylene.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:52 PM   #12
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Yeah, The whole shower kit including the pan, drain, the fabric, edges and corners is only $500 or so. I'm gonna just go for the whole system.

I'll have to build up 2" on each side of the pan with mortar, which I'll cover with the paper. The instructional videos on the Schluter website are great.

Thanks for the advice to all. Better to do it right now than rip out my bathroom...again.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:21 AM   #13
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DO NOT use Redgard instead of Kerdi. It isn't going to work.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:11 AM   #14
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Bad experience with RedGard?
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:38 AM   #15
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I am reading that Schluter recommends Unmodified thinset. Does this mean i should NOT add a mold retardant additive to the mortar?

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