Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Remodeling > Kitchen & Bath Remodeling

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-19-2011, 08:50 PM   #31
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,579
Share |
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


I think it is basically the same drain and the same procedure you want to do but the thing is the liquid membrane that bothers me. That Laticrete product isn't the same as the Redgard. They are probably using Hydroban. What is the mil-thickness recommendation when doing it that way? There is a minimum I'm sure. I've used a lot of Redgard but I certainly wouldn't trust it in that type of application but it is your decision.

The vinyl pan liners come 30mil and 40mil. Doubt you could ever build Redgard like that. It would also need a week or more to dry before covering it with the second cement application so that it wouldn't re-imulsify under the moisture of the second cast.

The whole idea scares me.

Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 09:07 PM   #32
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Park Santiago, Ca.
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to stiksandstones Send a message via Skype™ to stiksandstones
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


I took the redguard back, its gone.

I have hydroban now and their accompanying cloth for the joints.

Could I use the Kerdi drain instead of this EBBE I got? and still do the hydroban style install? or does kerdi drain require all their other crap?

I only mention the kerdi drain because they have a oil rubbed square cap, like this EBBE I got

Except I would have to order the kerdi drain online and delay this project again, but I want to do it right.

Thanks for your time!

Last edited by stiksandstones; 02-19-2011 at 09:12 PM.
stiksandstones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 09:37 PM   #33
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,579
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Quote:
I have hydroban now and their accompanying cloth for the joints.
Now you're talkin'.

Quote:
Could I use the Kerdi drain instead of this EBBE I got? and still do the hydroban style install?
Yup!

Quote:
Except I would have to order the kerdi drain online and delay this project again
These guys are pretty quick and they ship direct from Schluter in New York.
http://www.tile-experts.com/products.asp?id=54
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 10:48 PM   #34
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Park Santiago, Ca.
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to stiksandstones Send a message via Skype™ to stiksandstones
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Thanks again Bud....

Sorry takes me so long to grasp this...call it e-stupidity.

SO.....IF I go the kerdi drain route (now that I will have that delay, I might just go the kerdi membrane now)...but kerdi drain and hydroban, does that kerdi drain do its final install on that first bed of 'sandmix'?

ala-wether I go kerdi matt/membrane OR hydroban, both of those only require the single/first layer concrete (sandmix) bed, correct?
stiksandstones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 10:59 PM   #35
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 21,148
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Quote:
Originally Posted by stiksandstones View Post
Thanks again Bud....

Sorry takes me so long to grasp this...call it e-stupidity.



ala-wether I go kerdi matt/membrane OR hydroban, both of those only require the single/first layer concrete (sandmix) bed, correct?

Correct--one mud bed--Kerdi drain is used with the mat or Hydroban--Mike--
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 11:13 AM   #36
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,579
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Allow me to recap.

Hydroban is way way way (that's three "ways") better than Redgard.

My biggest problem when using either is the clamping drain. Just don't see how that would work with Redgard. The drain would quickly damage the Redgard when being assembled. If the drain assembly should move slightly I would fear damage at the dish juncture also. Redgard also blushes days after installation when moisture is applied to it. I don't think anyone knows just yet what issues that may raise if any.

Hydroban on the other hand is a better product from the standpoint of its ability to bridge and fill spaces up to 1/8". It will build quickly and in my experience doesn't seem to develop pin holes like Redgard does. I also would have more confidence in the Hydroban under the clamping drain.

I still wouldn't use either one for a pan liner, not just yet anyway. And with both you still have to cast a second cement floor.

Using the KERDI Drain there is only one cement casting. And yes the cement does need to be packed in under the drain. With the KERDI Drain the Hydroban would be an easy installation. I still wouldn't do it.

KERDI Mat is the only way to go with the KERDI Drain in my opinion.
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 11:46 AM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Park Santiago, Ca.
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to stiksandstones Send a message via Skype™ to stiksandstones
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Bud...remove redguard from your vocabulary, I have returned it, its gone, never to be seen or talked about again


This method here is a 'traditional' type right?
http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

Where you basically are building 2 mortar beds, with a membrane underneath-but that membrane in this TYPE of shower pan can only be Poly, not kerdi mat, not hydroban?
stiksandstones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 11:54 AM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Park Santiago, Ca.
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to stiksandstones Send a message via Skype™ to stiksandstones
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Bud...remove redguard from your vocabulary, I have returned it, its gone, never to be seen or talked about again


This method here is a 'traditional' type right?
http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

Where you basically are building 2 mortar beds, with a membrane underneath-but that membrane in this TYPE of shower pan can only be Poly, not kerdi mat, not hydroban?
stiksandstones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 12:02 PM   #39
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,579
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Quote:
Bud...remove redguard from your vocabulary, I have returned it, its gone, never to be seen or talked about again
Yow I got that part already but others lurk and I just want to be sure.

Quote:
Where you basically are building 2 mortar beds, with a membrane underneath-but that membrane in this TYPE of shower pan can only be Poly, not kerdi mat, not hydroban?
Correct. Why do you think I've been trying to discourage your thinking? You see the thing is...Custom Building Products says Redgard (there's that word again) can be used in that manner but a whole swarm of pros say NO-WAY. The technique also does not appear in any of the industry sanctioned methods either. Custom Building Products has a tendency to want all of their products to be one size fits all and in my opinion they have been known to stretch the truth from time to time.

The Ontario Tile drawing is absolutely correct.
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 12:17 PM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Park Santiago, Ca.
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to stiksandstones Send a message via Skype™ to stiksandstones
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Gotcha!

But the questions continue

So if I go the 'traditional' route, I need to by the PVC membrane (which looks like home depot sells it for $200!!!! http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053 I don't need that much, thats all they sell....sucks I have all these home depot gift cards).....AND if I do this 'traditional' method, I am still going to hydroban the entire shower because that PVC is only protecting the PAN, correct?

Kerdi is sounding more cost effective at this point

Oh....IF i got the kerdi drain route, didn't I read something about needing a large space around the drain? I only have about 2" between the drain and that short side of the foundation as shown here

Last edited by stiksandstones; 02-20-2011 at 12:19 PM.
stiksandstones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 12:27 PM   #41
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,579
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Quote:
So if I go the 'traditional' route, I need to by the PVC membrane (which looks like home depot sells it for $200!!!!
No No No No! They want to sell you fifty feet of the stuff. What the hell you gonna do with fifty feet of shower pan liner? Two hundred bucks???
Go to a plumbing supply house and they will cut-off any length you want and they will have stock 5' wide and 6' wide if you need it. Stay the hell out of Home Depot.

Quote:
AND if I do this 'traditional' method, I am still going to hydroban the entire shower because that PVC is only protecting the PAN, correct?
This is true.

Quote:
I only have about 2" between the drain and that short side of the foundation as shown here
Even with the picture I ain't following what you are saying. That thing in/near the middle isn't the drain?

Try again.
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 12:31 PM   #42
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Park Santiago, Ca.
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to stiksandstones Send a message via Skype™ to stiksandstones
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


I have homedepot gift cards, and I am broke, hence the trips to the depot...but I wasn't about to drop $200 on pvc that will go in the trash (remainder)....will try and find time to get to tile shop for piece I need, IF I don't go the kerdi route.


Kerdi drain, didn't I read that Kerdi drain needs extra space around the drain?..like more space around it than other drains? maybe I am confused, which is entirely possible
stiksandstones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2011, 05:01 PM   #43
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,579
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Quote:
I have homedepot gift cards,
You said that, I get it.

Quote:
Kerdi drain, didn't I read that Kerdi drain needs extra space around the drain?..like more space around it than other drains?
The KERDI Drain has a flange on top that is larger than other shower drains. This flange is there to receive the KERDI Mat to promote proper drainage. This flange however will end up under the tile and only the smaller 4" drain grate will be visible.

You didn't answer my earlier question which was:
Even with the picture I ain't following what you are saying. That thing shown in/near the middle in the picture, isn't that the drain? If it is then you have plenty of room for a KERDI Drain.

I can tell you the liner for $200 at the Depot is at a cost of $1 per square foot whereas that same liner in a lessor amount is going to cost around $5 per square foot but even at that it would be a lot cheaper to go somewhere else to buy only the amount of liner you need. I can't imagine what HD must be thinking, that $200 offering just doesn't make any sense. I don't think they know what they have there or what it is for.

Last edited by Bud Cline; 02-20-2011 at 05:04 PM.
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2011, 01:29 PM   #44
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 106
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


update? I've gotten caught up in this unfolding. Perhaps the OP is busy building his shower instead...
Mr. Michael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2011, 07:28 PM   #45
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,579
Default

Tore out ALL old shower, Help redo


Maybe he finally ran out of Gift Cards!

Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
framing, mold, shower remodel, tile, waterproofing


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with shower pan and drain ohiogirl1965 Plumbing 1 06-07-2010 06:33 AM
Tile Baseboard on outside of plastic shower pan at linoleum joint? GaryS Tiling, ceramics, marble 2 07-26-2009 12:39 PM
Shower redo coloirish General DIY Discussions 6 04-22-2009 07:34 AM
Moisture mystery in midst of shower redo Hisgirl Remodeling 3 01-05-2009 09:29 AM
redoing basement shower - basic questions (relocating drain/options I have) mslide Plumbing 5 10-28-2008 10:42 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.