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-   -   Tile Redi Shower pan question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f80/tile-redi-shower-pan-question-33823/)

oc250r 12-15-2008 08:54 PM

Tile Redi Shower pan question
 
Hello,
I did a search and couldnt find anything related to my problem.

Has anybody installed one of these tile redi trays.
http://www.tileredi.com/

"one piece tile ready shower pan or shower base made from rugged polyurethane, and comes with an integrated drain, curb, side splash walls"

I purchased on and it called for a 1/2 inch mortar bed underneath the tray to compensate for any possible unlevel surface. The tray is not fiberglass. My surface is level plywood. After installation I found that the mortar bed didnt adhere to the bottom of the tray and I saw some minor flex in the tray due to this fact. I didnt want to risk grout cracking from the flex and ripped it up and cleaned off all the mortar which was difficult. I have no crawl space or basement and had to cut the PVC with a dremel tool down the drain. I would like to avoid doing this again and get it right.

I called tile redi and asked if there were alternatives for putting it down (ie construction adhesive, other adhesives. They stated that it calls for a mortar bed and that it doesnt matter if it adheres to the underneath of the ribbed tray. They stated that when the tile is put in the tray it should make that more rigid. The rep said he couldnt give me other suggestions due to the fact he could be held responsible.

To me it would only make sense to have a great bond between the subfloor and tray.

Has anybody had success with other materials, adhesives, or what mortar did you use. Any help would be appreciated.

Termite 12-15-2008 10:15 PM

They specify mortar because anything else (liquid nails, etc) will compress somewhat even when dry. Any flexing at all would cause a failure. A bond between the mortar and the tray doesn't seem necessary as long as firm contact is achieved.

Personally, I think this product is a poor alternative to a properly laid mortar bed and membrane system. If you're still open to options, I'd strongly consider Kerdi by Schluter.

oc250r 12-16-2008 06:55 AM

Thanks you for your input, That makes sense with the adhesive. Would a strong epoxy have that kind of flex/compression when dry??

I do have about 1000.00 invested and is non returnable so I have to try to see it thru.

As far as the mortar is concerned any advice on the exact type and hints on consistency to make it as successful as possible.

Thank You

spwheat 05-04-2010 12:03 PM

Had the same problem - only would not adhere to the concrete (first floor). Lots of give in the pan and creaking when you stepped into it. Had to couter-sink long concrete screws into the floor and seal with silicone (similar to the instructions on how to install the corner seats). Also filled the gaps underneath with "good stuff" (through the screw holes - just prior to placing the screws). Absolutely no give or squeeks now.




Quote:

Originally Posted by oc250r (Post 198532)
Hello,
I did a search and couldnt find anything related to my problem.

Has anybody installed one of these tile redi trays.
http://www.tileredi.com/

"one piece tile ready shower pan or shower base made from rugged polyurethane, and comes with an integrated drain, curb, side splash walls"

I purchased on and it called for a 1/2 inch mortar bed underneath the tray to compensate for any possible unlevel surface. The tray is not fiberglass. My surface is level plywood. After installation I found that the mortar bed didnt adhere to the bottom of the tray and I saw some minor flex in the tray due to this fact. I didnt want to risk grout cracking from the flex and ripped it up and cleaned off all the mortar which was difficult. I have no crawl space or basement and had to cut the PVC with a dremel tool down the drain. I would like to avoid doing this again and get it right.

I called tile redi and asked if there were alternatives for putting it down (ie construction adhesive, other adhesives. They stated that it calls for a mortar bed and that it doesnt matter if it adheres to the underneath of the ribbed tray. They stated that when the tile is put in the tray it should make that more rigid. The rep said he couldnt give me other suggestions due to the fact he could be held responsible.

To me it would only make sense to have a great bond between the subfloor and tray.

Has anybody had success with other materials, adhesives, or what mortar did you use. Any help would be appreciated.


Bud Cline 05-04-2010 04:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I just recently was called to a job where a new Tile-Redi pan/tray had been installed. Same issues. Plumbers installed the tray but then stepped into the thing to bounce it down on the drain pipe. This compressed the cement under the pan and as a result the pan flexed when stepped after the cement had dried.

I too talked with the Tile-Redi techies and found out either they are very dumb about their product or very sly and are trying to avoid litigation.

Their reaction to me was as if this is the absolute first time this had ever happened and the first time they had heard of it. Liars!

I couldn't use foam for fear of raising the tray under the pressure of the foam expanding. Could have tried non-expanding foam but the problem there was with the built-in underside ribs and the cement, non-expanding foam really wouldn't do the trick because it couldn't get where it needed to be.

My solution was also to drill holes in the pan and screw it to the subfloor. Of course Tile-Redi agreed this would work but they weren't about to suggest it themselves nor give me their blessings.

It took sixteen screws to tame the deflection. I could have used silicone to waterproof the screw holes but I wasn't sure that would last or even work.

So...I used Schluter's KERDI Mat and relined the whole tray and used KERDI Band to waterproof up the sides. The KERDI was installed by spreading KERDI-Fix with a flat trowel and covering the tray 100%.

The guy that told oc250r that the tile would make the tray more rigid is just plain wrong. Mosaic tiles on a flexing tray WILL NOT make anything more rigid.

I also think the Til-Redi folks are guilty of deceit by not telling customers the only way to adhere tile to those trays is with epoxy thinset. Epoxy thinset is problematic in and of itself and really isn't a DIY product.

Not only that, both the bottom of the tray as well as the side must have the tile adhered with epoxy. These two tasks aren't very likely to happen at the same time. The problem is once the epoxy is mixed in accordance with the proper proportions the product is gone in a short time.

I asked Tile-Redi about that and the guy admitted it was an issue and that I would have to measure out a portion of the epoxy components to save back for use with the side-tiles later.

ARE YA KIDDIN' ME!

I gotta' tell ya folks...as a tile installer with thirty-four years experience and experience with almost every tile installation product on the market over the years, this Tile-Redi product is in my opinion one of the worst things to ever come along.

I wouldn't reccommend anyone spend their money on these things.:no:

firehawkmph 05-04-2010 10:54 PM

Bud,
I put one of the tile ready shower pans in last year. I didn't run into the flexing problems, maybe just dumb luck. The epoxy thinset was kind of a pain only for the fact that I had to guess at doling some out for whatever phase of the tray I was working on, plus I had one of their niches in the wall to use the epoxy on also. I just barely had enough. I am putting a kitchen in the house now and was just checking the shower yesterday.
Everything seemed fine, but I don't think I would put another one in. It seems like way too much money for what you get.
Mike Hawkins:)

James1963 08-04-2010 05:47 PM

Tile-redi
 
hey guys, i also have had the same problems with tile-redi. I have been a tile setter for 35 years and I help out alot of DIY's just as a source of information for them, and have had bad experiences with tile-redi. Schluter is a great product for a seasoned diy but the novist have some serious issue with it. I have located and have now installed 6 shower pans in the last four months with a product called the OneLiner and I recomend it for any diy weather seasoned or first time installation of a shower pan. The first one took some time to install (should have read the instructions i guess) and when i called them they where very helpful and every time i called i always recieved someone who was able to walk me thru the installation, including the receptionist! Buy the time I had installed the last one it only took me about 90 minutes. They have 15 sizes (i think) and they can also do custom sizes. Look them up on the web at http://www.dixsystems.com I think it's a great product.

tomnc27107 08-04-2010 07:28 PM

I purchased a Tile Redi shower pan due to my wife not trusting a site made shower pan. I spent at least $300 more just to keep her quiet.
I followed the instructions and watched the video several times.
The pan would not bond to the mortar mix. The pan kept deflecting.
Tile Redi customer service was no help.
On the third try I used MAPEI Ultracontact - 100# full contact mortar to form a bed. I have not stepped in the pan as I am waiting a full 72 hours to make sure there is no soft spots.
I would not recommend this product to anyone. It is expensive and hard to install properly. I think if you have a level installation surface a person could glue the pan in with construction adhesive like Liquid Nails. :furious:

milesh 08-05-2010 02:06 AM

Due to a poor and impatient decision on my part to install a Tile-Redi shower pan, I set the thing on my plywood floor with all pipes set, and, after reading the instructions, realized I should have put in a mortar bed first.

So, should I cut up the set pvc pipes and restart or should I shim wood underneath for leveling? Any ideas?

Bud Cline 08-05-2010 08:51 AM

Quote:

Yesterday 04:47 PM
James1963
hey guys, i also have had the same problems with........
THIS (ABOVE POST) IS SPAM

The shower floor product mentioned is of poor design and maybe even worse than the Tile-Redi product. That particular plastic tray costing over $700 is a blatant and outright RIP OFF in my opinion. No slope? No drain hole? $700. Are ya kiddin' me?:)

James1963 08-05-2010 11:24 AM

Funny you can plaster pictures of one product but if somebody offers another solution its spam?:no: FYI the shower pan comes with both a sub-floor and shower pan pitch kit, as well there is no drain hole so that you can cut your own - eleviates moving the existing plumbing or haveing a pan with the drain already in it not fit the drain hole when you get it.:thumbsup:

tomnc27107 08-05-2010 06:35 PM

Milesh - Start over // Tile Redi = bad
 
I know the feeling - I had to rip out the tile Redi shower pan twice before I got it correct the third time. I suggest that you do not use mortar mix. There is a high sand content (4-1) which will not set hard unless packed. If you pack the mortar mix the pan will not set into the mortar mix. If the mortar mix is un-level the least amount your pan will flex.
On the third attempt I used 100# of MAPEI Untracontact. I let the mix set for almost three days. The show pan is stable and firm. The Untracontact mix is very fluid, so the pan will settle into the mix to develop a strong bond and firm base.
I estimate I spent at least $600 more in time and labor to install this tile Redi show pan, than I would have spent on making my own pan.
Besides my wife has found something else to complain about. :laughing:

Bud Cline 08-06-2010 08:02 AM

Quote:

James1963:
"Funny you can plaster pictures of one product but if somebody offers another solution its spam?:no: FYI the shower pan comes with both a sub-floor and shower pan pitch kit, as well there is no drain hole so that you can cut your own - eleviates moving the existing plumbing or haveing a pan with the drain already in it not fit the drain hole when you get it."
Like I said...
A total of three posts here so far and two of them are spam. Thanks for contributing so much James.

THE ABOVE SPAM POSTS SHOULD BE DELETED !

milesh 08-06-2010 06:24 PM

TileRedi, second attempt
 
After cutting out the pipe to the unlevel shower pan (no mortar), I will be ready to install it again. I couldn't find the Mapei Ultracontact distributor. Anyone have an alternative product solution for the mortar?

tomnc27107 08-08-2010 10:18 AM

Tile Redi Shower base
 
I found the Ultracontact - MAPEI at Lowes Building Supply. Home Depot has just as good a product called Verabond. I suspect that one could use an adhesive on the ribs as long as the adhesive does not flex. I even thought about using a floor leveling compound. The important part is for the ribs of the pan to sink into the compound and the compound to be non-flexible.

Home Depot has a product called "CUSTOMFLOAT- beding mortar" which has been recommended to me. The people who recommended it have not used this material, so I am not sure how it turns out. It is made of portland cement, so the strength is in the product.

I have walked all over the pan I just installed while installing the tile. There has not been any flex. I do recommend that you install a liquid water proof membrane between the top of the pan and the wall board - durrock sheet
over the silicon sealant.

Home Depot has a product called Redguard. Lowes has a MAPEI product that does the same thing. The product brushes on and dries quickly. It just adds an extra layer of protection. The products cost $45 for a gallon. You will not use that much. If you want to you could coat all the shower walls with this water proofing and still have some left over.


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