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Old 06-12-2013, 04:08 PM   #1
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


We had a dripping tub faucet that soaked the coated board paneling that shouldn't have been used in a bathroom. When we pulled the panels down we found that they put it up to cover the damage from a previous leak, holes in the plaster walls filled up with newspaper and covered up.

I want to repair it the right way. So far we have removed the loose wall stuff all around the tub area (plaster or concrete board, I am not sure which but the walls are an inch thick, 2 layers) and we are going to put up new concrete board on the framing.

My questions are: Are there any other steps before or after the concrete board that we need to know about? How do you finish the concrete board if you are not going to tile vs if you are going to lay tile? We haven't figured out if tile is within the budget anymore with the damage repairs.

I appreciate any help you can give, this "easy" put up new shower wall panels and paint project is going from "this should be fun" to "insert expletive here"!

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Old 06-12-2013, 05:33 PM   #2
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


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Originally Posted by Mistifire View Post
I want to repair it the right way.
Remove EVERYTHING down to the studs.
Check/fix the framing you find including water damage.
Check/fix the plumbing you find. New faucets and tub overflow?
Insulate the walls.

How you do the walls depends on what you're putting over that.
There are LOT's of good ways to go but DO have a plan.

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Old 06-12-2013, 07:09 PM   #3
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


We are in the process of removing to the studs now, up to 5ft high above the tub and then 3ft high across the bottom of the room to the sink area. This bathroom does not have a shower and we are going to add one while it will be open. So far the studs all look sound

Does the concrete board need anything under it? the stuff we removed had some type of paper under it.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:25 PM   #4
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


You mentioned that the old finish was an inch thick-- so using 1/2" thick cement board will require furring out the studs so the board is out as far as the existing plaster.

Cement board is not waterproof--nor is tile and grout---some small amount of water/moisture can get behind the tile.

I always waterproof the face of the board with a paint on coating like Red Guard or Hydroban.

when using that--you do not need a plastic vapor barrier behind the board.

Mighty cheap insurance---always use powdered thinset for bath tiles---never a premix in a bucket--Mike---
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:44 PM   #5
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I always waterproof the face of the board with a paint on coating like Red Guard or Hydroban.
Would this be good to paint around the window above the tub?
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:56 PM   #6
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


I would recommend it for sure, but it is not 100% necessary. Let us know how things are progressing!
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:21 PM   #7
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


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Would this be good to paint around the window above the tub?
If there is a window --then, yes---waterproof the daylights out of that area.

If the window can be changed to a vinyl one,in stead of wood,all the better.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:01 PM   #8
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?



before


crumbly wall


the hole that was filled with newspaper


what it looks like now

We just need to cut out a crumbly section around the sink and then we are ready to rebuild
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:07 AM   #9
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?




Finished the last part today!

We have decided to go with tile on the shower walls, I would love to hear about all the good ways to do this now that we have a plan.

Now we are debating on the floor,

I don't know the terminology so hopefully the picture helps.

The red arrow layer is what I see looking up from the unfinished part of the basement, those boards are what look like 1x8s. The blue arrow layer is 3/4" particle board.
The level of all of the layers on the floor as it is are close to even with the hall, if we pull up the vinyl floor and lay tile it will be way above the hall. Would we be able to remove the blue arrow layer and just put concrete board on the red arrow level or would we need to put down another blue layer in between first?
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:13 AM   #10
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


The issue with the flooring is whether or not it will handle the added weight of tile on top of it. How far about are the joists? And what size are they? There's a deflection calculator online, search for it. That and consider visiting the John Bridge tile forums for more specific advice: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...isplay.php?f=1

You'd have to remove everything on the floor, put down a sheet of 3/4" plywood for stability and then 1/4" cement backer. Then Redguard, then the thinset and tile. You cannot lay tile on particle board as tile requires a much more rigid underlayment so it doesn't crack.

There are also products like Ditra that can be used, and their Kerdi products for the walls. They're an alternative to other waterproofing and backing methods. They're not cheap though, but do great job if done right.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:24 PM   #11
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


The joists are 2 x 8, 16" apart and only one area of the basement is unfinished but it looks like about 13' we can see the top of the load bearing wall and it is where the joists are joined.

I checked out the calculator and I don't think it will give an accurate answer, the bathroom is located above a load bearing wall and it doesn't take that into consideration, we will be removing the old cast bathtub too, that has to be like 300lbs.

The message at the bottom says to post on the forum you posted above and they will do calculations if there are other walls or beams to consider, so I will do that too.

Last edited by Mistifire; 06-15-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:42 PM   #12
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


If the span chart say you are good---the particle board needs to comeoff the on 1x subfloor---

Screw any or all of the old subfloor---add a layer of 5/8" or 3/4" BC plywood==then 1/4 " wonder board--set into a bed of fresh thinset--like a big gray tile---then nailed or screwed about every 8' or so---
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:48 PM   #13
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


Time for a complete gut job if you ask me. Get rid of that window if you are going to put in a shower. You could put in a transom window up high if you want, but you will need a header and trimmers. Get rid of all galvanized pipe. Insulate the walls with fiberglass.

There is nothing there worth saving, except the soil stack. Get rid of all floor layers down to the diagonal sub floor, and put down new 3/4 inch BC Min Plywood, followed by cementitious board, and tile, or better yet a wet set if you can find a craftsman to do it.

I intend to redo one of my bathrooms, and I spec roofing and waterproofing.

I personally will install a support substrate in the shower area, like MR sheetrock, Then install a peel and stick SBS material for backup waterproofing over the MR board, then install wonderboard over the peel and stick material, and screw to the studs. This will be followed by thinset, tile, grout, and sealer. I do not trust paint-on waterproofing material, especially through corners and changes in plane in wood framing. Wood moves too much. I want an actual membrane.
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Last edited by jagans; 06-15-2013 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:14 PM   #14
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


Whoa... that's WAY outside our budget and DIY comfort level!

If the only thing worth keeping is the soil stack then you would want us to demo the whole house if you saw it.

This was planned to be a repair with minor upgrades I hope that's an opinion and not a recommendation or we are screwed.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:19 AM   #15
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the proper way to do bathroom walls?


You must do what you can afford----that is the starting point----

However, Jagans suggestion of upgrading whatever plumbing you can is a valid suggestion---at a minimum,replace the mixer valve--and whatever piping needed to prevent having to rip out tile if your antique plumbing fails.

Changing a window for a similar size is not to bad of a chore--but moving one in an antique house is a major job----as it involves siding---

I'm a bathroom builder---over 30 last year---and never hear of anyone doing a mud set floor----a true mud set floor requires a floor joist modification----and the 'Jersey Mud Set' method uses wire mesh and a thin bed of mortar---and is a poor method. Much more likely to fail than modern backer board.----

Do what you can afford----bare in mind that good waterproofing around your window will be needed---update any piping that can't be reached later without damage to your new work---

---Mike-----

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