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Old 05-17-2010, 04:56 PM   #1
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Preparation for Tiling??


I'm preparing to tear down the current tile over my tub and replace it. I want to do this correctly but cannot find an answer to these question...or I should say I cannot find a consistent answer for these questions:

What is the correct order of materials to install for preparing to tile? starting from the exposed studs. felt vs plastic, cement board, do I need a sealant over the cement board?

Also, does there need to be installation in the wall with plumbing?

Any help would be great!
Kalee
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:21 PM   #2
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Preparation for Tiling??


Quote:
or I should say I cannot find a consistent answer for these questions
If you listen to all of the potpourri of answers you get on the Internet you may never get it right Here it is from "the book".

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felt vs plastic
Doesn't matter, your choice, either is acceptable, plastic is my choice.

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cement board
Correct next step.

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do I need a sealant over the cement board?
Absolutely not, never do that, bad idea.

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Also, does there need to be installation in the wall with plumbing?
You can insulate interior walls for sound abatement if you wish but it isn't necessary. Plumbing shouldn't be in an exterior wall.

The cement board is installed with special screws or nails that are alkali resistant, twin hi-lo thread, self setting.

Wallboard seams are to be taped with alkali resistant tape and completely mudded when the tiles go up.
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:52 PM   #3
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Preparation for Tiling??


Thanks for your help Bud! I live in a condo, so the plumbing wall is in a variety of places per the layout of the condo. for this bathroom it is the shared wall to my dining area.

If I use the plastic, do I tuck tape it to the top lip of the tub? And what thickness of plastic should I use? I am not changing anything about the steel tub that is already there.
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:53 PM   #4
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Preparation for Tiling??


About the only poly you have available to you is 4mil or 6mil, either will work. Don't use that no-mil stuff they try to sell to people as painters drop-clothes.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:27 PM   #5
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About the only poly you have available to you is 4mil or 6mil, either will work. Don't use that no-mil stuff they try to sell to people as painters drop-clothes.
HEY I LIKE THAT STUFF, FOR SETTING UNDER LEAKY GARBAGE BAGS, AS DUST COVERS ON FURNITURE
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:29 AM   #6
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HEY I LIKE THAT STUFF, FOR SETTING UNDER LEAKY GARBAGE BAGS, AS DUST COVERS ON FURNITURE
It also melts in your mouth like a communion wafer! Don't use it for this.
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:02 AM   #7
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Preparation for Tiling??


I'm no expert by any means. I've been reading these boards for years while procrastin..., er, planning my own bathroom project. What I've gleaned from them is this: Tile, grout, and cement board is not enough. You also need a layer of waterproofing. You can use a layer of plastic or similar product behind the cement board as Bud suggests. OR you can use RedGard or a similar waterproofing product on top of it. OR you can use something like Schluter-Kerdi system.

Now my loving DH is the type of guy who thinks "If one is good, two is better." Wrong! You don't want two layers of waterproofing or you risk trapping moisture in between them. This is a bad thing.

As you've found, there are a lot of differing opinions out there as to which is the best way to do this. I think the important thing is to pick ONE method of waterproofing and make sure it its installed or applied correctly.
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:10 PM   #8
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Preparation for Tiling??


Blondesense,

Correct. There is more than one method. The methods are not opinions; the methods are sanctioned by the industry. Which method is best is opinion.

You dun good grasshopper.

Once again......
Plastic or roofing felt (behind the wallboard) IS NOT waterproofing, they are moisture barriers only. They are intended to keep moisture away from the interior wall cavity where mold and mildew could grow if left unchecked. Cement board IS NOT waterproof. Cement board is not damaged by moisture but it is not waterproof and will in fact wick moisture and allow it into the wall cavity if there is no moisture barrier behind it.

A tile and grout assembly ALSO IS NOT WATERPROOF. This is why the cement board can and does get wet.

A more modern technique is to forgo the moisture barrier behind the wallboard and instead waterproof the wallboard surface; this is where the liquid waterproofing products come into play as well as the sheet membranes. Or, use a waterproof wallboard and also waterproof the seams of the waterproof wallboard with liquid waterproofing.

BUT, you do not want to install a moisture barrier behind the wallboard then also apply a waterproofing product to the face of the wallboard. This is not insurance...this is asking for trouble as stated above. DON'T DO BOTH!

The liquid waterproofing products are water proof when it comes to water droplets. The problem is the waterproofing liquids however are not vapor proof and will allow water vapor to transmit through the product under some circumstances. Any transmissive vapor must be able to evaporate and it will not if a second moisture barrier is behind the wallboards. Moisture will collect on the moisture barrier...and that is a problem.

I know I know: Clear As Mud!

These are scientific facts of the tile installation industry and not merely opinions of various craftsmen.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:27 AM   #9
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Preparation for Tiling??


Bud, this is the clearest explanation I've read in two years on this board. I'm gonna cut and paste it to my permanent file.
Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2010, 04:26 PM   #10
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Preparation for Tiling??


Blondsense you inspired me to create a Blog on the subject after writing the above. The Blog has more detail, go view that and save that copy instead of this one.

I have other little dittys there also that might interest you.


http://www.diychatroom.com/blogs/con...wer-walls-152/
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:48 PM   #11
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Preparation for Tiling??


so, just to reiterate, since I'm in a similar boat with the original poster...
you've got wood studs; staple felt or poly to the studs, overlapping on the way down; screw the cbu to the studs using approved screws (Durock, Hardi, etc...); thinset; tile; grout; seal the grout yearly...
correct?
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:00 PM   #12
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Preparation for Tiling??


Mr. Michaelso, just to reiterate, since I'm in a similar boat with the original poster...
you've got wood studs; staple felt or poly to the studs, overlapping on the way down; [overlapping on the way up] screw the cbu to the studs using approved screws (Durock, Hardi, etc...); [tape seams with alkali resistant mesh tape] thinset; [being sure to fill the taped seams] tile; grout; [use caulk not grout on all changes in plane] seal the grout yearly [if needed yearly]...
correct? [more less]
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:09 PM   #13
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Preparation for Tiling??


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Originally Posted by Kalena View Post
Thanks for your help Bud! I live in a condo, so the plumbing wall is in a variety of places per the layout of the condo. for this bathroom it is the shared wall to my dining area.

If I use the plastic, do I tuck tape it to the top lip of the tub? And what thickness of plastic should I use? I am not changing anything about the steel tub that is already there.
I must have missed the response to the tucking the plastic question. Should you leave it a bit longer and cut it off after cementboard install? I assume it has to remain right behind the cb.
Thanx!
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:02 PM   #14
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Preparation for Tiling??


I believe the plastic goes down to the floor behind the tub, not over the lip. What you want to do at the lip of the tub is caulk.
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