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Old 06-13-2009, 03:06 PM   #1
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please find flaws in my bathroom remodel plans


i am in the planning stages of a small bathroom remodel. it is about 5'x8' with a 9' ceiling.

so far the plan is to gut the room, update the electrical outlets to GFCI, new toilet, pedestal sink, tile the floor and tub surround with a nice white porceline tile, add an exhaust fan, and figure out a solution for the window.

i plan on using Hardibacker in the wet areas and anywhere we tile. i think that i want to use RedGard on the outside as that looks the easiest and most effective waterproofing method. for such a small room i am also considering using hardibacker on all walls as the added cost will not be that much. code calls for 5/8" on the ceiling and i plan on using 1/2" for the walls and 3/8" on the floor.

the window is a problem. we want to keep a window for light. but we need privacy and moisture protection. the current plan is to locate a vinyl window that duplicates the look of the double hung craftsman style window with three panes in the upper sash with opaque glass in the bottom sash. hopefully the current window isnt too damaged under the paint as it is an original window (house was built in 1917) and it would be nice to use it in another location in the house (or sell it). what do i do about the frame? plastic?

fortunately the bathroom has a wall that is an outside wall so installing the fan ducting wont be too much of a problem. is a 80 cfm fan enough for a 360 cubic foot room?

if i use redgard do i need to put anything between the studwalls ans the hardiebacker?

i plan on putting some insulation in there to minimize shower noise since the tub shares the wall with the closet in my kid's room. my wife is a nurse and will be up showering way earlier than we need the kids to get up.

while the studwalls are exposed i want to add bracing for shelves and hooks to minimize stress on the tile and hardiebacker.

if i understand correctly, i need to use alkali resistant screws and tape and use the mortar that is specified in the hardiebacker intallation instructions. the sheet calls for latex or acrylic modified thinset or type 1 mastic. any brand of that stuff better than another?

i have no outside corners in the room so i dont need to worry about using metal corners.

this is our only bathroom but we have 30 days to move in and we are living in a town house now. so i dont have to be fast (but i cant move "quick like mountain" either). i know the adage, "you can get it done fast, cheap or good. pick two."

is a permit typically required for this type of a job?

what am i missing?

thanks in advance,
Greg


Last edited by gregdonovan; 06-13-2009 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 06-14-2009, 07:18 AM   #2
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Sounds like a plan. If you are not changing the tructure, permits are not required in our area. But you do need permits for plumbing and electrical in most areas.

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Old 06-14-2009, 08:19 AM   #3
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Sounds like a plan. If you are not changing the tructure, permits are not required in our area. But you do need permits for plumbing and electrical in most areas.
thanks.

i looked up the permits on my city's website after posting here and i will neeed an electrical permit. not sure on the construction permit the way it is worded. i am sure my best bet is to give the "locals" a call.
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Old 06-14-2009, 08:20 PM   #4
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I would first of all use durock or another cbb instead of hardibacker. I would just use mr or mold resistent instead of wonderboard in the nonwet ares. No need for anything else

Why are you putting hardi on the floor? You would get phenomenal performance out of using Kerdi on walls and Ditra on the floors. The ditra would double duty as waterproofing as well as an uncoupling membrane. More expensive but more effective.

How about doing glass block for the light/ water contact/ privacy aspect?

I would put a vapor barrier between the shower backer and the cbb/ durock check local codes to check for sure.

Best insulation for sound proofing is rockwool. Holy itchy but holy effective. It is much denser than fiberglass and is actually what is used commercially.

Yes to the backing great idea not necessarily for stress but for your sanity and it will be much easier to find solid anchoring points and will prevent the cabinetry from pulling through the sheetrock which I think is your point.

As far as adhesives use what the tile manufacturer specifies.

As far as permitting you know the requirements of your municipality but make sure you don't miss anything. Make sure you bring any professionals you think you may need in early enough to prevent errors and extra expenses down the road. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish as it makes for a really bad day in the end.

These are my views and my insights others will have others and tell you what works for them in their areas and within their expertise and you need to decide what will work for you the best.

Good luck and take care!

James
Owner Paragon Renovations
www.paragonrenovations.net
www.paragonbathrooms.com
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:23 PM   #5
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please find flaws in my bathroom remodel plans


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
I would first of all use durock or another cbb instead of hardibacker. I would just use mr or mold resistent instead of wonderboard in the nonwet ares. No need for anything else

Why are you putting hardi on the floor? You would get phenomenal performance out of using Kerdi on walls and Ditra on the floors. The ditra would double duty as waterproofing as well as an uncoupling membrane. More expensive but more effective.

How about doing glass block for the light/ water contact/ privacy aspect?

I would put a vapor barrier between the shower backer and the cbb/ durock check local codes to check for sure.

Best insulation for sound proofing is rockwool. Holy itchy but holy effective. It is much denser than fiberglass and is actually what is used commercially.

Yes to the backing great idea not necessarily for stress but for your sanity and it will be much easier to find solid anchoring points and will prevent the cabinetry from pulling through the sheetrock which I think is your point.

As far as adhesives use what the tile manufacturer specifies.

As far as permitting you know the requirements of your municipality but make sure you don't miss anything. Make sure you bring any professionals you think you may need in early enough to prevent errors and extra expenses down the road. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish as it makes for a really bad day in the end.

These are my views and my insights others will have others and tell you what works for them in their areas and within their expertise and you need to decide what will work for you the best.

Good luck and take care!

James
Owner Paragon Renovations
www.paragonrenovations.net
www.paragonbathrooms.com
i need to update my location. i am across the river from you in fargo. buying a house on elmwood on the dry side of the temporary levees (that stayed dry) along the river.

why not Hardiebacker under the tiled floor? how much more is the ditra? the floor is only about 5 ft. by 5 ft. i liked that the hardi could be scored and broken rather than needing to be cut.

i do have a friend that is a plumber/handyman that is going to stop over and check things out once we get moved and help focus my plan a bit more.

i have a lot to learn and none of my plans are set in stone.

thanks

Last edited by gregdonovan; 06-14-2009 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:34 AM   #6
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Holy Shnikees small world Greg!

The Ditra is about $85 a roll and will cover about 55 square feet and comes in 39" wide rolls and cuts with a carpenters knife. You lay it down on a stable substrate with your adhesive and can immediatly lay the tile over the top of it so it is pretty straight forward and slick. I think you would find it much easier to cut than the hardi as well and you would gain the moisture barrier proerties it provides. This is a personal design decision but I almost use it exclusivly in all of my projects where I have tile on the floor. The other big advantage is you only get an 1/8" build up on the floor and when you are stacking 3/8" or thicker floor tile on it the height issue can be of great significance unless you are building up adjacent floors as well.

You can view the Ditra at http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx. I think you will find that product has advantages that you can benefit from but like I always tell my clients it is your project and I mean to interject only suggestions and not rules.

I am happy to hear that you realize that plans need to be chaged sometimes even as you go along.

Take care and enjoy that new place. If you need any other help don't hesitate to email me and I can also take a look. You know how to get ahold of me and if you want to see my website please visit http://www.paragonrenovations.net/ or http://www.paragonbathrooms.com/ and there you can find my email link as well as pictures of my projects.

Take care Greg and good luck!

James
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:41 AM   #7
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please find flaws in my bathroom remodel plans


Just my two cents: I would rethink the pedestal sink.

If this is the only bathroom (for three people?) have you considered where will you put the toothbrushes, hairbrushes, hand soap, hair dryer, razor(s), extra TP, etc.?

Pedestals are pretty and great for small powder rooms, but generally a vanity with counter space is more practical for a family bath (not to mention easier to install).

.

Last edited by Blondesense; 06-15-2009 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:50 AM   #8
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please find flaws in my bathroom remodel plans


Blondesense hit another valuable point! The pedestals are tough to incorporate top storage. However if you are looking for period correctness or have an extremely small space then sometimes they are they way to go. You can however install a contemporary vanity which the cabinet is only 12 inches deep and the sink cantilevers out. These give you the best of both worlds but may be different than the style or theme that you may be going for.

Take care and good luck.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondesense View Post
Just my two cents: I would rethink the pedestal sink.

If this is the only bathroom (for three people?) have you considered where will you put the toothbrushes, hairbrushes, hand soap, hair dryer, razor(s), extra TP, etc.?

Pedestals are pretty and great for small powder rooms, but generally a vanity with counter space is more practical for a family bath (not to mention easier to install).

.
this is an important issue to consider.

part of the problem is that there is a baseboard radiator (about 6-8 inches high and maybe 2 feet long) on the wall that the sink and toilet are on. it is hot water heat. any cabinet that is put in there will need to be designed around that. hence the appeal of a pedestal. the current vanity is very ugly and was hacked pretty bad to fit around the radiator.

plus a vanity might make the room feel smaller.

one idea i have is to put shelves between the studs on the wall opposite the sink so i can get a 6 inch deep shelf that only stick out 2-3 inches into the room. sort of like a doorless medicine cabinet.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
Holy Shnikees small world Greg!

The Ditra is about $85 a roll and will cover about 55 square feet and comes in 39" wide rolls and cuts with a carpenters knife. You lay it down on a stable substrate with your adhesive and can immediatly lay the tile over the top of it so it is pretty straight forward and slick. I think you would find it much easier to cut than the hardi as well and you would gain the moisture barrier proerties it provides. This is a personal design decision but I almost use it exclusivly in all of my projects where I have tile on the floor. The other big advantage is you only get an 1/8" build up on the floor and when you are stacking 3/8" or thicker floor tile on it the height issue can be of great significance unless you are building up adjacent floors as well.

You can view the Ditra at http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx. I think you will find that product has advantages that you can benefit from but like I always tell my clients it is your project and I mean to interject only suggestions and not rules.

I am happy to hear that you realize that plans need to be chaged sometimes even as you go along.

Take care and enjoy that new place. If you need any other help don't hesitate to email me and I can also take a look. You know how to get ahold of me and if you want to see my website please visit http://www.paragonrenovations.net/ or http://www.paragonbathrooms.com/ and there you can find my email link as well as pictures of my projects.

Take care Greg and good luck!

James
thanks! it is a small world indeed. over in a home theater thread there are a bunch of people using the green glue created here in fargo by a couple friends of mine.

fluid plans are very important to me. getting too fixated on one idea can really cause problems.
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Old 06-15-2009, 12:00 PM   #11
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Greg,

There are so many things you can do design wise it isn't even funny.

You need to decide what is the theme you are looking for and what your individual needs are.
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Old 06-15-2009, 12:14 PM   #12
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Greg,

There are so many things you can do design wise it isn't even funny.

You need to decide what is the theme you are looking for and what your individual needs are.
right now our basic desing theme is "not crappy," the bathroom is functional right now just very old (not in a good way), ugly and worn out.

would like to keep a general american craftsman feel to the room but not have it held to a rigid historical accuracy since the house is a 1917 1 1/12 stroy bungalow w/a nice 3 season porch.

i really want to do as much as i can myself since my schedule will allow for me to devote all my attention to the bathroom. my main concern is figuring out the electrics and plumbing. the plumbing shouldnt be too tough since all i am doing is changing the sink, toilet and shower fixtures no changing of the basic layout.

my other concern is the ducting to the outside for the exhaust fan.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:43 AM   #13
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I've seen more and more vanities with legs instead of a full cabinet. I wonder if something like this (without the shelf) could be modified for your needs -assuming it would meet code?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...534&lpage=none

Disclaimer: I'm not recommending this item or the company just using it as an example.

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