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Old 02-02-2011, 10:49 PM   #31
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


Bullsh!t !!!!!!

You're a techy paper pusher. You have no clue what acceptable standards are.

How in the blazes can you say that looks good???!!!

Where do live ...Florida!!!????

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Old 02-02-2011, 11:19 PM   #32
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


suprvee;

"just being anal", "overall it looks great"

ARE YOU KIDDING ME........

It looks terrible.......
How many granite countertops have you seen?
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:59 AM   #33
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


i took a look at the pics. pretty bad job. most of the the issues can be fixed by a stone professional. the only issue that cant be fixed is the mismatched slabs. the piece where filler is used can be remade provided there is material left. the gaps can be closed by pushing granite closer to wall (may affect overhangs ). The sink area can be fixed by recutting undermount sink. u will have a reveal. (if u can live with this). the seams can be pulled apart and remade and ground down so the fronts are flush. as far as seaming in the sink area, it is a judgement call. i know this will start a war on the forum but if they are rodded and prepared properly they will be ok. i occasionally have to seam at the sink because the customer wants it this way and i listen to my customers. i have no callbacks yet in 16 years for seams. only recaulking. again let an experienced professional tackle these issues.
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:32 AM   #34
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


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Originally Posted by suprvee View Post
Without that, you need to show the judge that the installation was not of a professional standard, and that will be hard to do. .
It'a called "in a workmanlike manner" and "industry standards" and in both of those, the installation falls way short. No, it won't be difficult to prove this is a substandard installation.
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:34 AM   #35
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


@ACGlobal. Well, thanks for the comment. Those in particular from professionals such as yourself mean a lot, as it confirms that I wasn't out of line to be upset at the product we ended up with.

As for the follow up comments to the guy who thought it was fine, thanks. I don't think he even read my original post properly, or paid attention to the myriad follow up posts. I wasn't going to say anything because it would have seemed as if I was getting on someone's case for disagreeing with my views on the matter. My eyes nearly popped out when I saw it. Maybe he might want to buy the counter off me seeing as he thinks it's fine? I'll sell him the mismatched piece at a discount!

I already have a couple of professional installers willing to state that the job is absolute crap, but I'm hoping that it doesn't have to go that far. I was supposed to go round this weekend to the store, but my wife and kids have come down with a virus/flu and have been terribly ill. We'll hopefully get round to the store in the next couple of days.

Thanks so much to all of you for your feedback and support. It really has helped to strengthen our resolve. I also sent the owner of the place some excerpts from the posts, just to give him some food for thought.

Last edited by timbo59; 02-07-2011 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:57 AM   #36
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


Good luck to you timbo. I hope you end up with a countertop that you will enjoy for years to come.


You also have a great sense of humour. Sell it to suprvee at a discount......... I think he would get along great with the installer........lol
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:00 PM   #37
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


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So, sorry to hear about your kitchen; I will say this again, overall it looks great. And even if you don't find a resolution with the company, you have great counter tops, that will last for a while. Keep us posted.
Now there's crock of crap if I ever heard one.
THAT is THE worst job I have ever seen.
I think you have a claim in the courts, the entire job should be removed and redone, you can't fix that mess.

One more thing...that cantilevered countertop is extended way too far, it will never last. Those little corbel supports don't mean a thing. That is a truly unprofessional installation on every level.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:25 PM   #38
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


I thought the same thing about the overhang but but really couldn't judge from a professional viewpoint. I am having corian countertops installed in a few weeks. This thread gives me the willies. I hope my installers know what they are doing.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:00 PM   #39
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


.............I think even yummy mummy could have done a better job installing that granite.......
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:38 AM   #40
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


@Jim & Bud. I don't think there's any need to worry about the overhang - I took care of that myself before the installation - I Hope!

I did a lot of homework on the matter, and found out that the recommended standard for an overhang is supposed to be around 14" - 15" in order to allow plenty of leg room underneath. But I also read elsewhere that unsupported granite shouldn't extend any further than 12".

So in order to address the problem and eliminate the need for a number of over sized corbels (I hate the things - you're always bashing your knees against them) and get the 15" overhang I wanted, I recessed three 1/2" x 3" steel bars as cantilevers across the base cabinet to help support the weight - plus of course there's the corbels to add a little extra near the corners. The bars extend to within two inches of the granite edge. I wouldn't want Hulk Hogan doing a body slam on the overhang, but other than that I think it should be okay. I've also told our kids - on pain of death - not to sit or climb on the extension.

And in case you're wondering, yes, I firmly bolted the base into the concrete to ensure it couldn't tip over under duress.

So what do you think - pass muster?

Thanks for the thoughts on the granite overall. As ever, much appreciated.
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:29 AM   #41
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


Hi again folks,
Okay, here’s the update.

The granite installers returned last week and replaced the offending piece. This time I watched them closely, and got a firsthand taste of just how bad they really are.

The replacement end piece was poorly measured, overlapped everywhere, and had a sink cut out almost as bad as before. On a couple of occasions, when the two guys stepped out to get equipment, I took a closer look, and snapped some pictures of the granite and the joins – judge for yourself. Is it me, or is the rough cut on the sink join just plain bad, or standard fare with granite? And note the join at the front prior to the copious filling and grinding that took place.

The heart stopping moment came after they’d ladled a ton of epoxy filler into the front join, let it dry, then began to grind everything down. Me, I would have taped some sort of protection over the drawer fronts on the sink to ensure a slip didn’t damage them. Not these guys. Only after they left did I realize that both drawers had been scraped during their work. So not only did they do a lousy install, but they also damaged the cabinets. And one had to really watch this guy in action to see just how much they make up for the inaccuracy and poor cuts by grinding the hell out of the differences and using copious amounts of the tinted filler to mask the results and gaps. If you look where the jagged back join was, you can see how they ground the underside to take away the some of the remaining roughness that the filler didn’t mask.

In addition, they short changed us on the length of the replacement piece, which I didn’t notice until after they left. Instead of the usual one and a half inch overhang, like we had with the previous piece, they left us with only a half inch overhang. It’s going to affect the backsplash, because if you note the pencil mark on the wall in the picture, it runs down directly from the wall cabinet above. If I want to run the backsplash down from the end of the wall cabinet, I’m going to have to allow for the curvature of the granite edge. That or I’m going to have to take the backsplash back half an inch or so. I just kept looking at it and thinking what the hell, did an extra inch of granite really mean that much to them?

They also reneged on their agreement to give me a matching 3" strip of granite to put up against the wall oven cabinet to cover the epoxy-filled gap they’d left.

Finally, having wasted a month of my time, putting us through all this crap, and knowing full well that he’d left scrape marks on the cabinet drawers, the guy in charge presented me with a piece of paper to sign, signifying that I considered their work satisfactory. He was pissed when I declined.

I also discovered they’d messed up elsewhere after they’d gone. As we weren’t sure which tap we were going to use I’d asked them to drill a single hole until we knew for sure which way we were going to go, though it was likely that we’d need at least one more for a soap dispenser to the right of the tap. ‘Sure’ they said. After they left I bought the bit myself to do the work, not trusting in their handiwork anymore, and guess what? As I finished drilling through the granite the hole cutter started scraping like crazy and shaking the drill. The next minute I heard a clattering in the sink base cabinet. They’d gone and put a mount for the sink directly where I said we’d need the hole!

So I ask everyone, especially those who are in the profession - was the second coming satisfactory in your eyes? I’m a wood worker, not an expert with stone, but if I applied myself as sloppily to working with wood as these guys work granite, I’d be ashamed of myself. It’s like the epoxy filler they use so copiously – if I ladled wood putty out to fill in similar gaps in my wood workmanship it would look like a joke. Is granite that hard to work with accurately or cut smoothly? If so, fair enough.

As far as my wife and I are concerned, this is about as good as it’s going to be. We weren’t 100% happy with the piece we chose, but it was about as good as it was going to get – the color matchup at the front is much better, but the back still shows a difference – yet we couldn’t have done better with the choices left. The only other option would have been to insist on completely new granite, and we would have felt like SOB’s doing that. They could have done better with the front join though, if they’d been bothered to make the effort. If you look at the picture before the filler was used, you can see why it posed a problem.

So see what you think.

As ever, thanks for the support.

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Last edited by timbo59; 03-03-2011 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:56 PM   #42
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The only other option would have been to insist on completely new granite, and we would have felt like SOBís doing that.
You guys are a helluva lot more forgiving than I would be. What about the grinder burns on the cabinet doors? That's OK with you also? You have a Cause For Litigation I'm sure. Pitiful just pitiful!
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:05 PM   #43
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Hi Bud,
You're right of course, but part of what I meant I guess was what the heck, if we went through it again they'd just give us the same crappy work, with just different granite. I honestly don't think they're capable of anything better.

We'll try and get some financial compensation, and file complaints in the appropriate areas. The drawers I think I can touch up.
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:12 PM   #44
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Good Luck!
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:18 AM   #45
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Is this a lousy granite installation?


This is now worse than before they fixed it. Haul those jokers into court and go for a full refund.

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