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-   -   Kitchen Wall Cabinet Help (http://www.diychatroom.com/f80/kitchen-wall-cabinet-help-171268/)

RichardZ 02-07-2013 01:55 AM

Kitchen Wall Cabinet Help
 
I'm hanging kitchen wall cabinets. I've read the Schrock guide (http://www.schrockatmenards.com/Admin/Menards/pdf/38705_Menard's%20Intall%20Care%20and%20Cleaning%20 Guide%206209.pdf). With this as a basis, I have a few additional questions:

o Going down just 1 3/4" places the screw on the inside just below top of the cavity. This makes it extremely awkward to use my drill screwdriver. Can I place it further down, say an additional 2"-4"?

o How does one handle a firred wall, given that the firring strip is only 3/4" deep? Do you add more screws?

o While it makes sense to join two adjacent cabinets through the wood face, I'm not sanguine about my ability to drill a hole 2.5" deep and have it go straight. Are there any other approaches that I could use?

Thanks,

oh'mike 02-07-2013 06:51 AM

First----the screws need to be in the reinforced area in the top part of the cabinet box----

You must look and see where that is on your cabinets----a long screw driver bit will allow you to drive screws near the top without having the chuck dig ruts in the cabinet top--

Furring strips? Yes more screws----about double the usual amount---

A stepped counter sink bit might be hand for your face frame connecting----I use three different drills----after removing the doors/drawers---drill a free hole through the first face frame---same size as the screw----so that the screw doesn't actually grab the wood on that face frame---then a counter sink to allow the head of the screw to be flush to the surface---

Next clamp the cabinets together----drill a pilot hole through your existing free hole---then set your screw----use gold screws--black drywall screws are brittle and may snap off in the hole.

It's early--and I haven't had my coffee----I hope this isn't to confusing---Mike----

oh'mike 02-07-2013 07:09 AM

http://www.diychatroom.com/data:imag...gCIiAIiID/2Q==

These Pony face frame clamps make my work faster---however,for one job the cost may not be worth it----

I looked at the instructions-----I'll add a method or two that I use--just for you to consider.

I hang the uppers first---then do the base---it's easier to work without the base cabines in the way.

I also use a ledger board when ever possible----snap a level line where the bottom of the cabinets will be---then screw a nice straight 1x4 to the wall below the line--

This will help hold them up as you work and keep all boxes on the same level--

I also gang as many upper cabinets as two men can lift---and install several in one lift----
This makes it much easier to get proper alignment of the face frames.

I usually have the cabinet -top side down on the floor when I make up the face frames---this way shorter cabinets can be joined to taller ones without having to lift up the short one----

I leave the face frame clamps on when I move the uppers to the wall---this will help prevent the screws from pulling out as you lift.

Old fashioned wood hand screws are great for clamping face frames--If you have them--use them.

oh'mike 02-07-2013 07:11 AM

http://www.diychatroom.com/data:imag...gCIiAIiID/2Q==https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...kIyUwDNnKYwHJR

RichardZ 02-07-2013 01:59 PM

Oh'Mike,

Wow! Thanks for all the tips. I particularly like the one about assembling the cabinets upside down to accommodate longer/shorter sizes -- makes such good sense!

To the point about the screws needing to be in the reinforced area of the top part of the cabinet box, there isn't any. The back is entirely one piece and flush. Supposedly, one can put a screw in anywhere, and it'll be fine. I question that a bit, because according to my thinking, there has to be some amount of material above the screw -- otherwise, the weight of the cabinet will just pull the cabinet down past the screw. On the other hand, if the bottom screw holds the weight of the cabinet and the top screw just holds the cabinet against the wall, perhaps this is less of a concern.

That being said, with the additional information that you provided about what the screws actually do, I guess the answer to my question about screw placement is that I can bring them down 2-4" and everything will be OK ...

I like that Pony clamp. If it has a drill guide as I suspect from the picture, I like it a LOT. I may not want to get a bunch of them, but if I had at least one, I could use it to do my drilling, put in the screw, and then use other clamps to hold everything together until I got the cabinets up on the wall. Where can a get such a nifty device?!?

Thanks for telling me you go thru three different drilling operations to do the face screws. I tend to be a bit anal about things (to the chagrin of my wife, who thinks what I do is overkill), and probably would have fallen upon that approach after much effort, but it's nice not having to spend the time figuring it out myself, and to know that that's the proper way of doing things.

Finally, gold screws? I've seen them in Home Depot and wondered what they are. Since you mentioned them, I called Grip-Rite, and the woman said that they were just regular wood screws painted gold to look "nice" when the cabinets were up. Since the woman seemed to be relying on what the catalog said, is this correct?!?

Thanks for all you help -- on this thread and all the others where I've seen your quite helpful comments.

Richard

RichardZ 02-07-2013 02:25 PM

oh'Mike,

I googled "pony cabinet clamps", and came up with these two (among others):

http://www.sears.com/adjustable-pony...p-00931392000P

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051

Any thoughts about one versus the other, and whether two clamps -- altho a bit more expensive -- would make the job so much easier as to be worth spending the extra $$$?

Thanks,

Richard

oh'mike 02-07-2013 04:35 PM

The $59. for two 'face frame' clamps(cabinet claw?) are the ones-----Wow---price has gone up a bit--I wonder how old mine are?

They do have a hole for the drill bit---Two are all you need--that's all I have---although I do have plenty of hand screws and speed clamps as well.

This is not rocket surgery or whatever that expression is---but do think this out---the wall ledger is worth the time--

With the base cabinets----be sure to block the dishwasher opening with some scrap wood until the counter top is installed----it's a heart breaker to find the opening has shifted after the tops are in--

Mike--

RichardZ 02-08-2013 01:58 AM

oh'Mike,

I checked out the cabinet clamps at Home Depot. While they allow you to drill, the hole is the size of a nickel. I presume the Pony ones at Sears have a drill guide hole, rather than an opening like the Home Depot ones which, given the diameter, might as well be the size of the Grand Canyon. Is this correct?

On the wall ledger, you mentioned using a 1x4. Is there a reason why you like this size, as opposed to say a 2x3 or 2x4?

Lastly, you can be sure I'll remember to follow your recommendation to block the dishwasher opening. I really, really hate it when I get everything set up just so, and come back to find things have shifted on me.

Richard


P.S. - Is it correct to say that gold screws are just pretty-looking wood screws?

oh'mike 02-08-2013 04:45 AM

Use any straight board---I use 3/4" plywood rips very often---just because they are free cut off from work in my shop.

the Pony clamps have a drill guide.----They are a useful tool---

oh'mike 02-08-2013 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardZ (Post 1112213)
oh'Mike,


P.S. - Is it correct to say that gold screws are just pretty-looking wood screws?

Yes, it's true--the gold screws are pretty wood screws---

However---the black ,dry wall screws are a different animal---they are hardened--and will snap or have the heads pop off when used in cabinet work---so don't use drywall screws for wood work---

joecaption 02-08-2013 07:48 AM

Those clamps even come with a drill bit.
There is a harden drill guide bushing and the whole thing slides out of the way so the screw can be installed without removing the clamp.

firehawkmph 02-08-2013 07:47 PM

Rich,
two different types of screws for cabinet installs. Forget the gold ones. Here's a link for the screws used to hold the cabinets to the walls. They have a built in washer under the head and self drilling tip:
http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/202...FYGpPAodEB8AOA

Here's the ones for joining the faceframes. They also have the self drilling tips. But still use the three hole method Oh'Mike described above:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/202...-500piece.aspx

Mike Hawkins:)


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