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Old 11-03-2009, 09:59 AM   #1
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Granite Bar Overhang support


Hey all - in the final leg of kitchen reno, been doing almost all myself, except the granite install... followed advice I've heard on here to leave that to the pros... and thank god I did! Man those slabs were big and heavy. Actually, felt kinda good for once to sit back and watch.

I'm attaching a crude diagram I made below, but essentially, we made a 5.5 foot wide cutout in a wall from the kitchen to the living room, where we had a granite "bar top" installed. The wall is about 3.5" wide and the slab itself is about 16 inches at its widest (slopes narrower to both edges... almost like half an oval) and the templater/installer put it on with about a 1-1/4" overhang into the kitchen.

My question is the support for this: As they were installing other pieces in the kitchen, I installed 2 fairly light (in my estimation) metal brackets (not iron triangles, as you see in the diagram, just "L" shaped) to support the granite a bit. The installers used this lovely smelling epoxy and spread that all along the top of the 3.5" wide, 5.5 foot opening where the granite would sit. They said the epoxy ALONE would "lock in" the granite even if someone were to push down on the hanging end.... the brackets would also help.

They held it there for about an hour while it set, and left with a 2x4 blocking to hold up the hanging end while the epoxy cured (they said a day or 2, it's been there for about 4 days now).

I'm a bit leary of this... is the epoxy really that strong to hold that slab just across 3.5" of wall width from cantilevering under its own weight, let alone if I put anything on the top of it or heaven forbid someone push down on the end??

Granite Bar Overhang support-granite-overhang.jpg

Thanks for your input in advance... let me know if you need more "real" pictures or clarifying info.

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Old 11-04-2009, 12:06 AM   #2
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Granite Bar Overhang support


Mmmm, good question. Although I normally don't install the granite in a kitchen and bath remodel, I do install a corbel or bracket for the granite in that sitution. If the installer says it's good and you trust his/hers judgement. I wouldn't worry about too much.

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Old 11-12-2009, 04:05 AM   #3
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Granite Bar Overhang support


The best way to do that is to use 3/4" granite, and add a 3/4" buildup for the edge. On top of the wall, screw down 3/4" plywood that will fit under the granite out to the buildup edge. Just use Polyseamseal to secure the granite to the plywood.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:56 AM   #4
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Granite Bar Overhang support


Thanks for the advice - can you describe a bit more the buildup? Is this perpendicular to the granite slab (i.e. parallel to the wall below the slab)? Secured to the studs I imagine? We have some trim down there - is that sufficient? It is 3/4 inch.. my concern is that when I remove the brace that is currently there, the slab definately moves and I'm not confident in leaving it like that.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:05 PM   #5
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Granite Bar Overhang support


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Originally Posted by LeviDIY View Post
Thanks for the advice - can you describe a bit more the buildup? Is this perpendicular to the granite slab (i.e. parallel to the wall below the slab)? Secured to the studs I imagine? We have some trim down there - is that sufficient? It is 3/4 inch.. my concern is that when I remove the brace that is currently there, the slab definately moves and I'm not confident in leaving it like that.

The buildup is an added strip to the outer edges of a 3/4" top to make it look 1 1/2" thick. It's done at the fabricators. It can be machined to have different profiles. If your top is just a 3/4" top you would need brackets of some sort or corbels.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:38 PM   #6
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Granite Bar Overhang support


No offense, Levi, but I'm cringing at the setup of your granite overhang on a thin wall. I have an engineering background and it's obvious to me this is an unstable setup. There's a good possibility the wall itself will tear from the floor and tip forward from all the weight. The 2x4 structure inside that wall, which is nailed or screwed to the floor just isn't enough. I think you definitely need some legs, a 2 x 4 brace along the length of the overhand, and perhaps a steel plate to help support the massive weight and counteract the tendency for the whole apparatus to tip forward. Yeah -- it's a royal pain to go back and re-do this, but it's worth preventing someone from getting hurt. Please correct this!
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:12 AM   #7
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Granite Bar Overhang support


sombrerocat - thanks for the post.. I know its like 5 months later, but believe it or not, we haven't rectified anything yet (a lot of other stuff, travel, etc going on)... so the temporary "leg" left by the installer supporting the end of it is still there. The more I think about this, the more I agree with you.

We've been looking for an asthetically appealing brace as the underside of the overhang is on eye level from our living room. We aren't completely opposed to the idea of a leg, but would certainly change the feel of it.

One thing we've considered is removing it entirely and cutting it down about 4-5 inches, so there is not as much weight.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:23 AM   #8
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Granite Bar Overhang support


How about a small return wall, support the slab while keeping the main wall from moving.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:03 AM   #9
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Granite Bar Overhang support


Instead of cutting the counter top down and losing it's functionality, I suggest doing something I do all the time for heavy stainless steel counter tops that sit on a wall.

We make angle brackets out of angle iron and lag bolt the vertical leg to the studs in the support wall. We do this for counter tops in pass-through windows in school lunch rooms and have never had a problem. We make our counters out of two 3/4" layers of plywood glued and screwed together and then covered with 16 gauge stainless steel.

If you have a local fabrication shop or welder you could have these made up fairly inexpensively. They would be even cheaper if you could cut and miter and weld the pieces yourself. Hold the horizontal leg back from the egde of the counter far enough that it can't be seen when standing close to the counter and miter the end so that it doesn't have a sharp edge to catch someones knee. You shouldn't need anything between the granite and the bracket, but you could spread some PL300 or epoxy there for extra peace of mind. We usually paint the brackets black to help hide them.

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Old 05-14-2010, 07:42 PM   #10
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Granite Bar Overhang support


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Originally Posted by LeviDIY View Post
sombrerocat - thanks for the post.. I know its like 5 months later, but believe it or not, we haven't rectified anything yet (a lot of other stuff, travel, etc going on)... so the temporary "leg" left by the installer supporting the end of it is still there. The more I think about this, the more I agree with you.

We've been looking for an asthetically appealing brace as the underside of the overhang is on eye level from our living room. We aren't completely opposed to the idea of a leg, but would certainly change the feel of it.

One thing we've considered is removing it entirely and cutting it down about 4-5 inches, so there is not as much weight.
Hi Levi

AS I mentioned earlier, I really think you need some direct support (legs) under that side. The problem with braces is that you're still going to have the problem of all the cantilevered granite wanting to rip the wall out of the floor -- and that granite can weigh as much as a piano (400-700 pounds). Not good. Think of a mailbox full of granite causing the wooden post to lean forward -- same phenomenon. Ever fought to keep one of those posts upright? I don't know any method that would anchor the wall strongly enough to the floor to prevent the granite from tipping forward -- other than steel and concrete. That little 2x4 inside the wall is woefully inadequate.

If you look at the style of antique tables, you can get ideas of some stylish legs. For inspiration you might want to visit some antique stores that have these beautiful old tables. Heck -- maybe you could incorporate a nice pedestal from an antique table -- and go with a rich dark oak color, or paint it black, dark green, etc. (I don't know the color granite you have).
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:56 AM   #11
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Granite Bar Overhang support


Okay

Another point to consider -- the last comment assumed the granite was 3 cm. I was assuming this piece was 1" solid. Quite a difference in weight here! On the East Coast most of the granite seems to be 1" thick and the piece I have, just 48" length and 22" wide is about 100 pounds. So -- what thickness and weight are we dealing with?
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:41 AM   #12
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1 centimeter = 0.393700787 inches

Therefore 3 centimeters = 1.181103261"



We mount 300# + stainless steel cantilevered counter tops in schools using the method I posted earlier. The supports are virtually invisible, cheap and easy to make and attach. This isn't rocket science, this is about safety and functionality.

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Last edited by fabrk8r; 05-22-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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