Whirlpool Tub - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2008, 08:14 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 99
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Whirlpool Tub


I'm installing a whirlpool tub next week. Any suggestions or things to watch for?

Advertisement

MikeyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 08:31 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Termite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


The tub motor must be bonded to the metal faucet fixture or the pipe that feeds it (if metallic). The motor should have a copper lug that will take a #8 copper wire, and the other end should be landed on a grounding clamp attached to the fixture. Bonding the two together eliminates the potential from shock caused by gradient differences in voltage should any metallic parts of the tub become energized. Very important!

Other than that, access is required for service/removal of the tub motor. Access can be gained through a hole in the floor or a removable door of some sort.

Advertisement

Termite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 08:49 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Jackson,Ohio
Posts: 232
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Can't recall seeing the grounding lug on my unit. Would they all have them? I already got my dedicated circuit and GFCI wired.
MikeVila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:17 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
The tub motor must be bonded to the metal faucet fixture or the pipe that feeds it (if metallic). The motor should have a copper lug that will take a #8 copper wire, and the other end should be landed on a grounding clamp attached to the fixture. Bonding the two together eliminates the potential from shock caused by gradient differences in voltage should any metallic parts of the tub become energized. Very important!

Other than that, access is required for service/removal of the tub motor. Access can be gained through a hole in the floor or a removable door of some sort.
DO NOT GROUND FIXTURE .we use plastics ,pipe and otherwise to avoid being grounded should the unit become energiezed ,besides that's what the gfci is for .I do not agree with the grounding of anything you can touch in the tub.READ your instructions!!!build well!
Orangeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 10:56 PM   #5
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
The tub motor must be bonded to the metal faucet fixture or the pipe that feeds it (if metallic).

I find this to be untrue, here is what the code actually says,


Quote:

680.74 Bonding


All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating
water shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or

bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.

The water pipe supplying the tub is NOT part of the circulating water, therefore no bonding is required if the tub contains all plastic piping, (I've never seen a manufacture use metallic piping)

Last edited by chris75; 12-07-2008 at 10:59 PM.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 11:00 PM   #6
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeguy View Post
DO NOT GROUND FIXTURE .we use plastics ,pipe and otherwise to avoid being grounded should the unit become energiezed ,besides that's what the gfci is for .I do not agree with the grounding of anything you can touch in the tub.READ your instructions!!!build well!

Its not grounding, its bonding. and of course you dont agree, you dont know/understand the difference.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 09:08 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
Its not grounding, its bonding. and of course you dont agree, you dont know/understand the difference.
fair enough!however is the motor case and or the copper pipe in your house not grounded!?bonding in this case would ground the faucet!true or untrue ?as the code says no bonding is required! been doing this for a long time no need to tell me I don't know the difference .I am an electronics tech and have been playing with 100 kilowatt transmitters for 20+ years and am very familier with bonding/grounding.If your faucet is bond/grounded in this case ,you have created a direct path to ground!
play safe,build safe!
Orangeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 09:43 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Termite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Orangeguy, you're dead wrong in your first post where you say you don't agree with bonding (grounding in your words) anything you can touch in the tub. BONDING keeps people from getting killed, and the code requires that all motors and metallic piping systems get bonded together, unless the motor is double-insulated. Most are not. It isn't about clearing a breaker or sending a fault to ground, it is about equipotential bonding to eliminate the potential for shock caused by gradient voltage differences between metallic parts. Ever wire a swimming pool? Same principal.

Chris, you're misinterpreting. Check your NEC handbook or the IAEI's one and two family dwelling handbook if you have one, and re-read the code section you quoted. The handbook has a great picture, as does the IAEI book. The motor must be bonded to the metallic supply piping of the home, not the tub's circulating piping which I agree is always plastic. Some jurisdictions interpret this section to mean that the faucet itself must be bonded even if plastic supply plumbing is used...I'm on the fence there.
Termite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 02:06 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whirlpool Tub


well it's fairly obvious that some of the people here have not installed a whirlpool tub in quite some time.Mikevila please read your install manual and don't listen to anyone here !it's seems to become a battle of ego's and that is not what's best for you my friend!I will get you those pics you asked me for . happy building !
Orangeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 05:31 PM   #10
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post

Chris, you're misinterpreting. Check your NEC handbook or the IAEI's one and two family dwelling handbook if you have one, and re-read the code section you quoted. The handbook has a great picture, as does the IAEI book. The motor must be bonded to the metallic supply piping of the home, not the tub's circulating piping which I agree is always plastic. Some jurisdictions interpret this section to mean that the faucet itself must be bonded even if plastic supply plumbing is used...I'm on the fence there.
No i'm not... Read the code section I posted... And the NEC handbook is NOT a code book, so I wont waste my time reading that stuff....

Here is the code section below, now show me where the supply pipe needs to be bonded? The only water that circulates is the water that is contained in the tubs internal piping... which happens to be plastic so no bonding is required.


680.74 Bonding


All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating
water shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or

bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid




Quote:
CMP-17 statement, Proposal 17-183 in the ROP leading to the 2005 NEC:
Panel Statement: The need for bonding in a bathroom differs from the need for bonding in a pool area. Electrical equipment of a hydromassage bathtub is not accessible to users of the tub. Only parts that can cause a voltage gradient in the bathtub need to be bonded. Section 680.74 has been concisely reworded to require the bonding of only the parts that present a risk of creating voltage gradients in the hydromassage bathtub.

Last edited by chris75; 12-08-2008 at 05:46 PM.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 05:36 PM   #11
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeguy View Post
fair enough!however is the motor case and or the copper pipe in your house not grounded!?bonding in this case would ground the faucet!true or untrue ?as the code says no bonding is required! been doing this for a long time no need to tell me I don't know the difference .I am an electronics tech and have been playing with 100 kilowatt transmitters for 20+ years and am very familier with bonding/grounding.If your faucet is bond/grounded in this case ,you have created a direct path to ground!
play safe,build safe!

Stick to electronics then....
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 08:07 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Termite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Ok Chris, we obviously disagree. Right, wrong, or indifferent, every city in this metropolitan area that I can think of requires what I describe. I understand that the NEC handbook is not a code book, but the NFPA puts it out as a guidance document and I assure you that those of us that spend our days in the codes often utilize guidance documents. The IAEI's book is another such document.

What would you suggest that the bonding lug that comes on nearly every hydromassage tub motor sold today is for???
Termite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 08:16 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Termite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whirlpool Tub


Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeguy View Post
well it's fairly obvious that some of the people here have not installed a whirlpool tub in quite some time.Mikevila please read your install manual and don't listen to anyone here !it's seems to become a battle of ego's and that is not what's best for you my friend!I will get you those pics you asked me for . happy building !
"Read the install manual" is good advice, but we could put that on every post in this website and have no need for a website. A little friendly discussion is a good thing.
Termite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 09:30 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: north east
Posts: 728
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Whirlpool Tub


I dont' know squat about this subject but I do know that it is benecfial to the OP to take into account the opinions of those posting, not including the one that tells him to listen to no one on here. The OP obviously has questions about his installation or he wouldn't of come here. I'll bet he will at least look into bonding/grounding now..
__________________
LIVING THE DREAM
DUDE! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 12:58 AM   #15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whirlpool Tub


I have been contracting for many years now and would first like to say that it has been nearly 12 years since I have seen or installed a whirlpool with metalic pipeing.I am not just an electronics tech .I have multiple tickets and have since the insults have decided that most of the people on this site giving advice are single tracked when it comes to there advice. I don't think that a forum is the place to insult anyone! I have read many different posts that are frankly scary! I have never had a problem with the methods I have employed over the years I just got off the phone with the master electrician that I have used for the last 7 years and he has never had to bond a plastic piped whirlpool!I take his word over any of you guys. I know he is who he says he is.The best piece of advice I can give is to CALL AN ELECTRICIAN.***Moderator edit: personal insult removed***happy building!

Advertisement


Last edited by Termite; 12-09-2008 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Personal attack violates site rules
Orangeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Relocating drain/trap in manufac. home for whirlpool, HELP!!! MikeVila Plumbing 7 12-10-2008 10:04 PM
Whirlpool Duet tryinitmyself Appliances 4 03-17-2008 01:07 PM
tile step into whirlpool ekaplan1020 Remodeling 1 04-09-2006 11:48 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts