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Old 10-01-2008, 10:26 PM   #16
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what kind of pipe to use


If you are going to use acid on your truck, you then need to follow up with an alkaline (caustic )solution. In the wash business this is called two-stepping. The acid loosens the dirt and the alkaline solution neutralizes the acid. The dirt runs off. However, it takes some experience and knowlege to do this safely. The acid can burn your paint and glass, and the caustic can burn your aluminum. You can also use hydroflouric acid to brighten the aluminum. HF also has an affinity for calcium, or in more graphic terms, it will eat your bones. Teh caustic, also known as lye or sodium hydroxide will burn your skin. All 3 chimicals can cause skin and respritory burns. For more info go to http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/ That group has fleet washers who 2-step and have used HF. There are also exhaust cleaners who use SH. Ask Trey in Alabama to see his foot with the SH burns.

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Old 10-01-2008, 10:58 PM   #17
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what kind of pipe to use


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I always recommend sand around pex buried in the ground. It prevents voids and voids are insulation and will cut the heat transfer. Once the sand gets warm it will stay warm for a long time. In cement it is in contact with the slab as the concrete cures it gets tighter.
So would you install a radiant barrier under the layer of sand? It seems a shame to waste even what little heat might be transferred to the earth below through conduction--I know, hear rises, but maybe some sort of insulation would be better than a radiant barrier. Perhaps foam board with a foil layer?

Just curious, as I may very well experiment with some of these applications in the near future.

Thanks!

Dugly
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:51 PM   #18
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what kind of pipe to use


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So would you install a radiant barrier under the layer of sand? It seems a shame to waste even what little heat might be transferred to the earth below through conduction--I know, hear rises, but maybe some sort of insulation would be better than a radiant barrier. Perhaps foam board with a foil layer?

Just curious, as I may very well experiment with some of these applications in the near future.

Thanks!

Dugly
I wouldn't put in anything else. I was trying to think of what to put down there and don't know what would stand up to the weight and temperature and came up empty.

Maybe some of that high density foam used for frost barriers on foundations? But if the slab was on a grade would the slab tend to slide downhill since it depends on friction to stay in place and the insulation would act like sled? Maybe a footer would be needed to keep it in place.
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:11 AM   #19
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what kind of pipe to use


Yeah, I see the issue there, and the driveway sure ought to be on an incline!

What if one were to pin the high density foam in place with the rebar that would be needed when the slab were to be poured? In this case, you'd have about 5" or so for the rebar to stick up above the top of the sand layer--maybe a series of 30" pieces of rebar pounded into the ground through the foam.....it just seems that you'd need something to avoid trying to heat all that ground (we all remember our parents saying "What, do you think I'm rich enough to heat the entire outdoors?" when we just left a door open).

Intriguing issue--thanks for mulling it over with me!

Dugly 8)
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:04 AM   #20
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what kind of pipe to use


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Yeah, I see the issue there, and the driveway sure ought to be on an incline!

What if one were to pin the high density foam in place with the rebar that would be needed when the slab were to be poured? In this case, you'd have about 5" or so for the rebar to stick up above the top of the sand layer--maybe a series of 30" pieces of rebar pounded into the ground through the foam.....it just seems that you'd need something to avoid trying to heat all that ground (we all remember our parents saying "What, do you think I'm rich enough to heat the entire outdoors?" when we just left a door open).

Intriguing issue--thanks for mulling it over with me!

Dugly 8)
Rebar shouldn't be exposed. It will rust away to nothing and will work it's way into the cement.

I think a footer all the way around would be the best solution. Go down about 18 inches. Have some high density foam at the bottom and sides filled with sand.

Overkill? For sure. Expensive? Yes. Would it work? Absolutely.

I love discussing things like this. This is how ideas are developed and old ideas improved.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:11 AM   #21
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what kind of pipe to use


OK yesterday I had a long talk with a rep from wattsradiant they cant recomend their product for this job due to it has not been tested for the kind of weight I would be putting on it (my truck is about 17,000lbs and the average auto is between 2-3000 lbs)He said they have tested for cars but not trucks like this and if it were him he would go with reg pex since it has been tested and proven to be able to withstand weight.He did say I should make sure to put reinforced mesh over the pex to help with any srinkage or movement of the concrete and liked the plan of crushed limestone over the limestone base said it would be a wonderfull base for this job in this area.So at this point I guess pex is what I will use unless someone has another suggestion
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Old 10-05-2008, 10:17 AM   #22
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There are two different types of pex. Regular and barrier. Regular pex allows oxygen to pass through it while barrier pex does not. Barrier pex has an aluminum layer to keep oxygen out. Barrier pex is double the cost of regular pex but worth the money in a closed system just for the decrease in maintenance.

You will need a pump, air scoop, a valve for putting in your solution, air bladder (small one) and a pressure relief valve.

I have gotten pumps from here and like Taco pumps.
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Old 10-05-2008, 12:08 PM   #23
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since I am swithcing over from well water to city water system I thought I would just take everything from the well system and use it for this and add a small electric boiler just like a hot water tank
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Old 10-05-2008, 12:23 PM   #24
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Just make sure that there are no connections to the house water supply. While propylene glycol is not as dangerous as ethylene glycol it is still not good to ingest.
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Old 10-05-2008, 12:48 PM   #25
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I will be disconnecting the whole thing from the house and moveing it to the garage not only for this use but the water company has told me I have to completly disconnect and close off the well before they will do the finale hookup.Thats another reason for useing it why waste it and it has everything I need

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