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Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM   #1
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


Evening folks.

Redoing the upstairs bath in my place and am working on some plumbing today.

Background: Ever since we owned the place (3 years) this bathroom has had a slow tub drain. I never worried about it a whole lot because I didn't use that bathroom (guest bathroom).

I'm putting some subfloor down and figured that before I do that I should check that the drain performance without the tub. I found it to still be slow. Since the drain will be moving a bit I cut into the pipe and found this:




It's a hard build up, not sludgy.

This is how the pluming is laid out:


I cut near the doubled up joist shown in this picture on the same side as the brass drain T. I'm going to look down the pipe with a camera and see how far the build up goes, but was curious to thoughts on what the build up is and how I can prevent it from coming back.

The pipe is 1.5" which as I understand it is borderline. Do I need to step up to a 2" pipe? Pipe slope is between 1/8" and 1/4" per foot which seems shallow to me.

The bass piece drops into the trap then goes through 3 45s into the wye and into the lateral run. Lateral run to the left is the vent. Lateral run to the right is about 6' 3" before going vertical and down.

Thanks,

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Old Yesterday, 06:45 PM   #2
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


I assume the pipe runs to the sink that has a vent and the tub. It should be 2 inch up to the tub connection then 1.5 inch to the sink if it is a single sink. 2 inch if not.

Looks like lack of pitch played a role. The pitch should be 1/4 inch per foot. If the sink is not on the end let me know. Also make sure you support the pipe every 4 foot.

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Last edited by Ghostmaker; Yesterday at 06:48 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 07:00 PM   #3
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


The sink connection is not in this bathroom. The bathroom right below this one however I think has a sink that is connected to this waste line, but not 100% sure. That would also put the sink in the middle of the drain system not at an end.
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Old Yesterday, 07:15 PM   #4
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


I stuck my camera down further into the pipe, looks like the drain opens up a little bit, but it is still 25% blocked I would say.

edit: I should also add that it looks like this ends up on a 3" pipe somewhere after it goes vertical.

Last edited by info2x; Yesterday at 07:17 PM. Reason: added info
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Old Yesterday, 07:46 PM   #5
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


So you have a dry flat vent. That is not good.
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Old Yesterday, 07:52 PM   #6
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
So you have a dry flat vent. That is not good.
Wouldn't this be a wet vent? If the shower/tub is in use the line would have water in it.

So it looks like minimum the lateral part of the line should be redone in 1.5" with a proper slope of 1/4" to 1/2" per foot.

Ideally it would be nice to swap out the 1.5" line to 2" but that would require that I find where the drain opens further since you can't go to a smaller pipe from a larger one.
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Old Yesterday, 08:02 PM   #7
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


This is how I think things are laid out.

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Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM   #8
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


Was this installed by the previous home owner? Your state currently uses 2012 IPC. It sure doesn't even come close to any code I know.

Your tub cannot dump through the first floor sink vent.
The dry vent from the tub to the wall is simply not allowed. That is not a wet vent. A wet vent uses up sized piping to maintain air at all times in the pipe. It also would have something draining down that dry portion like a bathroom fixture. This is done to provide you knowledge when it clogs that it needs snaked.

So if you bought this house from a flipper I would suggest you call in a reputable plumbing company get estimates and sue the previous owner.

If you want to correct it to IPC code you will have to do more then what your thinking.

Last edited by Ghostmaker; Yesterday at 08:28 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Was this installed by the previous home owner? Your state currently uses 2012 IPC. It sure doesn't even come close to any code I know.
As far as I know this was installed original to the house in 1988. If it makes you feel better I've found other wonderful mistakes such as a drain that went up.

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Your tub cannot dump through the first floor sink vent.
The dry vent from the tub to the wall is simply not allowed. That is not a wet vent. A wet vent uses up sized piping to maintain air at all times in the pipe. It also would have something draining down that dry portion like a bathroom fixture. This is done to provide you knowledge when it clogs that it needs snaked.
OK. I will open up floor a bit more and see if I can determine how the plumbing is done. If I have to I'll open up the bathroom wall.

If the sink was on a branch such as this would it make a difference?


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So if you bought this house from a flipper I would suggest you call in a reputable plumbing company get estimates and sue the previous owner.
No flipper. PO was dead and I bought it as an estate sale.

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If you want to correct it to IPC code you will have to do more then what your thinking.
So be it. I like things done correctly.
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Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM   #10
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


1st floor sink is on a branch as shown in my last post. I determined this by pulling the p-trap out and finding the pipe went into the wall and made a right. Snaking my camera in found that eventually it came to what appears to be a sanitary T. Below the T should be 3" and above is debateable at this point. Going to go pull some subfloor up now.
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Old Yesterday, 10:45 PM   #11
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?




It's all you can do when things spiral out of control...

Ok I tore up another section of flooring. pipe stays 1.5" as it descends which means near where the 1st floor sink connects the pipe becomes 3" either at the connection or just higher.

Looking towards where the tub drain was:


Looking the other direction:


As you mentioned the pipe should be supported every 4 feet which it clearly is not. As such the pipe has bowed visibly which obviously added significantly to the drainage problem. Sigh...

edit:

Alright so the pipe would need to be run along the same path as it is now to at least vent the downstairs sink. How would I properly vent the tub drain?

Last edited by info2x; Yesterday at 10:51 PM.
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Old Today, 12:46 AM   #12
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


Here is a better picture of what the drains look like in the two stacked bathrooms.

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Old Today, 08:30 AM   #13
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


Ok your going to have to repipe the entire tub drain and vent for the tub.
So go ahead and cut and Scd 40 cap the tub off where it enters they wye.
Support that vent for the 1st floor lav pitching it down towards the first floor lav.

Can we get to one of the 3 inch drains below?
Also are you installing another deck mount tub?

Good news everything else is to code.

Last edited by Ghostmaker; Today at 08:33 AM.
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Old Today, 08:41 AM   #14
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If you can get to a three inch drain cut in a 3 by 1.5 by 3 inch wye. Come up for your tub but route the drain so it passes under a wall install a 1.5 inch tee on its back for your vent continue up to 6 foot to your tub trap. Make sure all is pitched and supported. 4 foot intervals is the minimum spacing.
The tub vent can either go straight to the attic and tie in above. Or you can tie it in the walls to existing vent as long as you are 42 inches above the floor when you tie the new vent into the old. Make sure all venting and drainage is well pitched and self draining.

Very important that the vent for the tub go straight up off the tub drain. Nothing flat is allowed in your case. You can 45 it vertically and use the dead space under your tub on the wall sides to get into the wall.

Good luck and thanks for fixing it properly.

You have to run a new drain because at some point some body added in a tub and tied the drain into the lower sinks vent. Since that sink is the actually wet vent for the lower bath you cannot tie the tub in at that point and remain code compliant.
If you use that sinks 3 inch pipe make sure you cut in the new tub drain wye downstream of the lower baths sink.



Last edited by Ghostmaker; Today at 08:48 AM.
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Old Today, 10:18 AM   #15
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What am I looking at and how do I prevent it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Ok your going to have to repipe the entire tub drain and vent for the tub.
So go ahead and cut and Scd 40 cap the tub off where it enters they wye.
Support that vent for the 1st floor lav pitching it down towards the first floor lav.

Can we get to one of the 3 inch drains below?
Also are you installing another deck mount tub?

Good news everything else is to code.
Alright so repipe the tub. What a pain, but hey the crap in the pipe alone says it needs to go.

What do you mean by "get to"? I can go in my basement and look up and see them, but if you are talking about running new pipe directly to them that's a huge mess. Easiest one to run a pipe to would be the vertical one that is at the 1st floor sink since I can open up that wall.

Tub is a below the floor drain unit with integrated apron. I haven't heard it called a deck mounted tub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
If you can get to a three inch drain cut in a 3 by 1.5 by 3 inch wye. Come up for your tub but route the drain so it passes under a wall install a 1.5 inch tee on its back for your vent continue up to 6 foot to your tub trap. Make sure all is pitched and supported. 4 foot intervals is the minimum spacing.
Routing the drain directly to a wall might be difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
The tub vent can either go straight to the attic and tie in above. Or you can tie it in the walls to existing vent as long as you are 42 inches above the floor when you tie the new vent into the old. Make sure all venting and drainage is well pitched and self draining.

Very important that the vent for the tub go straight up off the tub drain. Nothing flat is allowed in your case. You can 45 it vertically and use the dead space under your tub on the wall sides to get into the wall.
What makes my case so special to not allow any horizontal venting? I guess this is the hardest part for me to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Good luck and thanks for fixing it properly.
Wife hasn't killed me yet so I think luck is on my side. I have no intention of moving and with the ammount of money it takes to redo a bathroom to cheap out on a few sections of pipe makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
You have to run a new drain because at some point some body added in a tub and tied the drain into the lower sinks vent. Since that sink is the actually wet vent for the lower bath you cannot tie the tub in at that point and remain code compliant.
If you use that sinks 3 inch pipe make sure you cut in the new tub drain wye downstream of the lower baths sink.
Ok and this violates the whole wet vents need to be contained to one floor correct?

So now if I understand correctly If I wye into the 3" pipe below the existing sink entrance I could then have that be for my tub drain. This of course would still require some some creativity on the vent side though.

Ok so would the following work...

The second sink (furthest from stack) in the 2nd floor bath doesn't exist today. What if I ran the 3" pipe from the lower bath up into the second floor bath hooked the tub in with 2" pipe and then the sink in with 2" pipe reduced the stack size to 2" and went directly to the attic and hooked in? I suppose technically it could be 2" for the vertical run as well right?



Should also note that the kitchen line also had a clothes washer which means the 2" line is right at it's limit never mind adding the tub and sink from downstairs on it. The 1.5" vent would have needed to go into the attic and then into the main 3" pipe to meet DFU requirements never mind the dry vent issues we've been talking about.

Your picture didn't come through.

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