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tuchodi 06-05-2010 11:47 AM

Water Softener
 
I am looking at getting one the Salt Free water softeners. There are just 2 of us (retired) and we have 2 bathrooms, I am on a well and have had the water tested and I have a hardness of approx 20 PPM and it is mostly made up of Calcium and Magnesium and has no Iron or and rotten gas smell. Has anyone used these units and can offer some advise as how they worked for you.

Akpsdvan 06-05-2010 12:13 PM

Do a search on the no salt type units...

From what I have seen from people posting about them is that they do not work, but I may not have found the pool of information that says that they do work.

There is a report out that shows the savings of using the standard softener when it comes to the water heater and the dishwasher and other items that use water with in the house..

Bob999 06-05-2010 03:04 PM

Did the test show 20 ppm or 20 grains hardness? I ask because 20 ppm is only very slightly hard water and most people don't chose to soften water with that small amount of hardness.

The conversion factor is 17.1 ppm = 1 gpg (grain per gallon)

Salt free softeners don't remove hardness, only a softener regenerated with salt or calcium chloride actually removes the hardness.

What problems or water conditions do you have that you want to treat the water for?

tuchodi 06-05-2010 04:16 PM

Yes it is only 20ppm so it is not very hard but I want to make sure when I put a new Hot Water tank in it will last as there is a bit of scaling that builds up in the tank, and also the dishwasher and tea kettle. I understand that the salt free units only convert the calcium so it doesn't stick to pipes etc. I have had a salt water softener before but we didn't like the slight salt taste and wanted to keep the calcium and magnesium which is good for you.

Bob999 06-05-2010 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuchodi (Post 451669)
Yes it is only 20ppm so it is not very hard but I want to make sure when I put a new Hot Water tank in it will last as there is a bit of scaling that builds up in the tank, and also the dishwasher and tea kettle. I understand that the salt free units only convert the calcium so it doesn't stick to pipes etc. I have had a salt water softener before but we didn't like the slight salt taste and wanted to keep the calcium and magnesium which is good for you.

I don't have any personal experience with the salt free units but have read about them as well as many posts from users on various sites. That reading has left me very skeptical that they work.

I will also note that the amount of calcium (and to a lesser extent magnesium) in 20 ppm water is miniscule compared to the daily intake recommended for older adults. To put it another way drinking water with 20 ppm hardness will not significantly contribute to your nutritional requirements.

NHMaster 06-06-2010 10:06 AM

I can go on for pages about this subject. Have researched and tested many of these units. they do not work. Take a look at this site. He has all you wll ever want to know.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html

tuchodi 06-06-2010 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHMaster (Post 451964)
I can go on for pages about this subject. Have researched and tested many of these units. they do not work. Take a look at this site. He has all you wll ever want to know.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html

Yes I have heard that the magnetic type of system does not seam to work. The one I am looking at advertises on this site and sells the Pelican system which from what I understand uses some sort of media bed and not magnets. There are some very good reviews on this system. Have you tested these units also and found they do not work?

Andy CWS 06-06-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuchodi (Post 452013)
Yes I have heard that the magnetic type of system does not seam to work. The one I am looking at advertises on this site and sells the Pelican system which from what I understand uses some sort of media bed and not magnets. There are some very good reviews on this system. Have you tested these units also and found they do not work?

Good reviews? Yes, presented by the seller. All other reviews by reral customers are very poor. IT JUST DOES TREAT WATER, period! Does nothing for iron, doesn't soften water and occupies space and rain wallets. Why do you think they are sold by internet dealers---because you can't walk into their office and raise hell and get your money back, let alone a simple service call.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

NHMaster 06-06-2010 04:19 PM

I have not tested the Pelican unit but I have experience with the Watts unit and if they are similar, they do work. What they don't tell you though is that when the bed finally fouls ( water conditions and total gpm determine when) it's very expensive to re-bed the units.

Gary Slusser 06-07-2010 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy CWS (Post 452038)
Good reviews? Yes, presented by the seller. All other reviews by reral customers are very poor. IT JUST DOES TREAT WATER, period! Does nothing for iron, doesn't soften water and occupies space and rain wallets. Why do you think they are sold by internet dealers---because you can't walk into their office and raise hell and get your money back, let alone a simple service call.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

A customer of an internet dealer can get their money back by filing a complaint with their credit card company for up to 6 months after the purchase.

That's probably why most local dealers do not accept credit card payments for their equipment sales. And, most local dealers require a sales contract be signed. Those customers must go to court to get any money back but because they signed a contract, that usually prevents them from being successful in a law suit.

lazzlazz 06-10-2010 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuchodi (Post 451669)
Yes it is only 20ppm so it is not very hard but I want to make sure when I put a new Hot Water tank in it will last as there is a bit of scaling that builds up in the tank, and also the dishwasher and tea kettle. I understand that the salt free units only convert the calcium so it doesn't stick to pipes etc. I have had a salt water softener before but we didn't like the slight salt taste and wanted to keep the calcium and magnesium which is good for you.

I don't have anything to say about the unit you mentioned in your original post, but in making your decision, you should factor in the cost of whatever "softening" system you decide to go with, including purchase, installation, & operation.

You could go with the regular salt system & have your cold water plumbed so it doesn't go through the softener - but there will be costs to operating the softener (I estimated mine ran $4-5/month for electricity; when it died, I did not replace it because I figured the softener costs were greater than the costs of replacing the hot water heat a little more often. When I researched this, I learned that beyond softeners causing health problems, they could also be hard on copper pipes.

tuchodi 06-10-2010 09:14 PM

Thanks for all the post so far. I also am on a septic field system and I know to much salt is not a good thing for the field so that is another consideration for me. I still hope someone here has had something to do with these none magnetic salt free softeners and can give some advise positive or negative.

NHMaster 06-11-2010 06:06 AM

If you are talking Pelican or Watts, they both work. the problem is that they have to have the media changed and the media is very very expensive.

tuchodi 06-11-2010 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHMaster (Post 454415)
If you are talking Pelican or Watts, they both work. the problem is that they have to have the media changed and the media is very very expensive.

Thanks, Yes those are a couple I was trying to find out about. I know there are many factors when it comes to when the media has to be changed but my water is not very hard so any experience as to what length of time you may get out of one of the media before changing.

Gary Slusser 06-11-2010 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuchodi (Post 454442)
Thanks, Yes those are a couple I was trying to find out about. I know there are many factors when it comes to when the media has to be changed but my water is not very hard so any experience as to what length of time you may get out of one of the media before changing.

Pelican etc. do not "work" to provide an improvement in water quality anywhere near the same as a water softener.

I've been using one since Jul 2007. Because of the very little improvement in water quality I will not sell them to customers.

They are very expensive because the media is very expensive. They are not softeners because they do not remove anything from the water as a softener does.

The mineral is said by the manufacturer to last 5 years and there are pretreatment requirements to its use and if not met, the mineral won't last that long.

With only 1+ gpg of hardness (20/17.1= 1.169 gpg), no softener dealer or salesman should sell you a softener or a softener substitute as you are looking into buying, you're just throwing your money away.

Softener salt water discharge into a septic tank is not going to harm anything in the septic tank or system, or kill bacteria etc.. Over the last 35 years or more the EPA has done studies on that twice and I hear they are doing another or have done so recently.


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